Do calories matter?


(Doug) #61

Welcome, Marga. :slightly_smiling_face: Yes, weight loss progress usually slows down, but you have already made a huge beneficial change for yourself and your future.

I’d say that when calories truly “don’t matter” is when one isn’t gaining weight and isn’t developing insulin resistance. These are the people that can “eat anything and not gain weight.” Some go forever like this, and some go a number of years and then it’s no longer true.

For many of us, at some point insulin levels and insulin resistance start ratcheting each other up, and fat gain follows along, eventually. Now the equation has changed, and the generalized “calories,” per se, are not the end-all of the discussion. If there is ‘magic’ with ketogenic eating, it’s that it allows most people to start reversing the cycle of increasing insulin resistance leading to more obesity, leading to more insulin resistance…

I’d characterize it as the genetic ability to maintain proper hormonal regulation, combined with the amount and frequency of foods we eat that propel us toward losing that proper regulation.


(Consensus is Politics) #62

I have an alternate method using pork belly.

Cut a slab of pork belly into serving sizes. Mine are usually about 6 inches x 6 inches, thickness varied from about 1 inch to 2 inches (this one time, it was nearly 3 inches thick!)

Score the skin side, deep enough to go through the layer of fat and into the meat, or just very close to it (helps it cook faster, but also creates a splatter hazard. Cooking pork belly is not as simple as frying a steak. Take as many precautions as you can. You have been warned!).

DRY IT OFF! Helps with splatter, but only a little, but noticeable. Rub a lot of salt on the skin side, and down into the slices.

I fry mine on the meat side first, and skin side later. Meat side at a medium to medium low heat. Skin side almost at 100% heat. Something you will need to work out on your own. Cooking it this way helps ensure the skin side stays crispy. If you cook skin side first, it often comes out soggy and chewy. When that happens I abort my plan, and cut the now soggy pork belly into small cubes, bite size, and dumpnit into a bowl with about a cup of sour cream. Its still delicious :yum:.

Here, I posted this before several months ago. Dont look at it too long as it might spike your Insulin! :cowboy_hat_face:


(Consensus is Politics) #63

I disagree with this statement the way it is stated. I consider Keto an all I want to eat way of eating. If Im hungry I eat until I’m not. Basically I’m NEVER hungry. I’ve been eating this way nearly 1 1/2 years now. Went from 245 pounds to 188 pounds in something like 4 or 5 months. Sure, my weight seems to go up and down from 188 to 193, and seems to occililate between that range. I’m thinking it’s me just drinking too much water, as I can go from 193 to 188 overnight.

Again, my problem is that the statement sounds as if All you can eat, means forcing yourself to eat more and more just because tou want to, not because you are hungry. I literally get to the point when eating, that suddenly when i pick up the fork, before it gets to my mouth I feel like I better not take that next bite, or I’ll turn the entire dinner to see food :nauseated_face:


(Marianne) #64

Welcome!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #65

Yeah, it is possible to quibble about what the words mean.

Similarly, I happen to think it’s pessimistic to say that the glass is (only) half full, and optimistic to say that it’s (only) half empty; whereas other people focus on the words full and empty and assign nuance on that basis.

They are wrong, of course, but I’m used to that, lol! :rofl::rofl:


#66


#67


(charlie3) #69

I bet if you zero out the snacks it will break the stall.


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #70

I say it’s full, just ½ air and ½ whatever liquid is in it :grinning:


#72

I ain’t drinking 13 cups of water. I already have to go to the bathroom to relieve myself like 10 times a day just by drinking to thirst, I don’t want to live in there.


#74

Amen. I drink 8 to 10. 14 seems absurd. I do think that lots of people (myself included) have sort of screwed up our thirst signals, just like our satiety signals. It might be a good exercise to drink at least 8 to 10 cups of water (around 2 liters) every day (the usual recommendation) for a couple of weeks to replenish and build a habit. After that, just adjust up or down from there based on thirst.


(Marianne) #75

I’m drinking 80+ oz. of water a day and I don’t have to pee that much. I interpret that to mean I must be using it somehow. I want to give a personal shout-out to my liver and kidneys, the unsung heros. I’m sorry I abused you for so long. :grin:


#76

The water question has so much to do with levels of salt and other minerals, along with climate conditions. If you’re high on salt (salting liberally plus using salt water/sole) you find that the body uses water much more effectively, as the salt transports/conveys the water deep into the tissues and cells.

Sedentary keto folks who drink water merely to achieve target ounces on well-salted keto may in fact be simply waterlogged, depending on the state of the gut. Other times, as water bypasses the kidneys after about 4 ounces - some may be urinating pale urine very frequently, which is a sign that one needs more salt or less water.

Then again, if you’re heavy lifting and/or enduring hot dry weather, you’re sweating and requiring more intake. But if you’re in humid hot weather, the body will automatically retain more water to some degree as a defense, and on low-carb/keto the body’s functions can get very efficient as healing occurs.

I pay attention to salt as much as I pay attention to water. I start every day with concentrated salt water mixed in to my morning water (and afternoon water if doing intermittent fasting during warm weather when a cup of warm salty bouillon/broth isn’t appealing) - then when I eat I use sea salt liberally. Doing that, it makes my hydration so efficient that I drink much less water than some on this thread aim for. I feel great, look pretty great, and am recomposing at a pace appropriate for my biology and age.

In a context of many global ancient traditions, people prized salt more than gold - and traded it as currency. Not too long ago, traditional peoples used to carry water (many still do) - a critical and laborious chore that made water special. Thus, folks also tried to live near streams/springs where one could get a quick handful or two of water to drink. Many ancient peoples walked some 10+ miles per day but were not chugging water bottles all day - their use of salt along with water (collected dew water and stored spring water) as well as water-bearing roots/leaves ensured they didn’t have to. I’ve often pondered this as it was just a few generations back for my family on both sides that everyone used wells or river water - no indoor plumbing and store-bought water bottles, and that’s the way it was in many places for millennia.


(Justin Jordan) #77

As a reminder: Not everyone’s satiety mechanisms work as intended, even on keto.


(Alec) #78

And this is one of the many hormonal mechanisms that are being fixed whilst on keto. Relearning hunger is important.


(Robert C) #79

(Personal opinion) I think counting calories is a good idea if you think you are eating properly but weight is going in the wrong direction.

But, I think counting calories is a bad idea if your satiety mechanisms do not work properly.

The reason is that when you count calories, there will be times when you think “I should be hungry now, calorie count is low” or “I should not eat now, calorie count is high”.

The simple act of counting will push around satiety signaling - there is a mind-body connection - it is unavoidable (in my experience).

My suggestion is to drop the calorie counting (and measuring body weight) for a couple of weeks to a month. Force yourself (on Keto) to go only with how you feel. Avoid fat bombs, butter coffees, Keto “treats” and highly palatable meals - see where that gets you on the scale.


(Ben ) #80

Just read The science behind fat metabolism by Will Little. He puts a simpler spin on a lot of the fat loss idea. Here is his link. https://ketoschool.com/the-science-behind-fat-metabolism-60f7a3f678d0


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #81

Thanks for the link @BenBoy. For what it’s worth, after starting on keto again at the beginning of Jan, 2017, it took me about 6 months to determine my basal metabolism by trial/error. It turned out to be about 2500 cals, which really shocked me, given I was 71 years old! During the first 2 1/2 months I lost 30 pounds, which had not been my intention at all. I had initially intended to lose maybe 10-15 pounds to go from about 175-180 to about 160-165. I mistakenly guestimated my BMR as probably around 1800 for a not particularly fit/active senior male. So in accord with my initial keto ratios I ate 1500 calories.

It soon became apparent that I was losing weight faster than I thought I would. So after the first couple of months I started upping the daily calories by 100 cals each week or two. Still continued losing weight, although the more I upped the daily calories the slower I lost it. When I eventually got to 2500 I stopped losing weight. So for those first couple of months I was eating 1000 calorie daily deficit!

I have maintained my weight, give or take a couple pounds, at 150 since. I’m more active now and work a full-time job to supplement my retirement income. I’ve upped my daily calories to 2800. I find that if I eat more than that for a few days I gain and if I eat less than 2700 for a few days I lose weight.

I have also just completed an informal experiment regarding the effect of raw whole ginger root on fat burn measured by BrAce (breath acetone). I discovered that eating only about 10-15 grams per day accelerates fat burn significantly. In my case BrAce increases 2 - 3 times (and more!) from my base rate when I eat the ginger root. During this informal experiment that lasted about 10 days I also lost about 5-6 pounds, going from 146-7 to 141. In fact, I stopped because of the weight loss. I did not want to go to 140 or below. I plan to conduct a more controlled experiment in the near future to try to quantify what’s going on.

Anyway, I guess the point of all this is that calories and calorie counting matters to me, has worked well so far and I intend to continue doing it. Along with the calories, I track my macros and plan all my meals according to exact ratios. At first, it was a bit irksome to spend time doing all the figuring, etc. But soon after starting I developed an Open Office spreadsheet to simplify my calculations. I looked at several online macro and meal planners but nothing offered the precision and flexibility I wanted, nor the ability to tally and report totals in a completely transparent manner.


(Ben ) #82

OK I’ll bite. Raw Whole Ginger Root will be on the next shopping list right after the 50 percent off meat sale.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #83

During the couple or so months I was eating 1500 calories of what turned out to be a 1000 calorie per day deficit I did not feel hungry and I lost on average a bit over 2 pounds per week. I measured my food to my beginning macros and generally hit a total of 1500 cals, but if I was a few over or under did not worry about it. I figured any small over/unders would balance out over time. I would have felt I was not in control without macro and calorie numbers.

I had started with a four day water fast, felt extreme ‘carb hunger’ the second day of the fast which subsided into ‘keto hunger’ by the morning of the third day. I have not felt hungry since except during my recent experiment eating raw ginger root. That appears to have accelerated fat burn significantly and there were days when I felt keto hunger when I ate sub-2800 calories. I also had some weight loss during the first week when because of my work schedule I ate less than my daily calorie target. Getting my daily calories back up to 2800 again seemed to have stopped the weight loss. As noted below, I’m going to investigate ginger root more rigorously to try to quantify the process a bit.