Desperate and confused

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #42

And so are calve’s liver and chicken liver.

(Alec) #43
  1. Don’t buy expensive meat… simply buy the type of meat you can afford… in my opinion, fattier the better. I actually like the cheapest steak we get here (Australia) ie rump steak at A$18/kg = US$6/lb. If you can’t afford that, buy ground beef with the most fat you can find. Key point: grass fed/organic/farm laid blah blah blah, completely unnecessary. Do what you can afford. Whatever that looks like is a million times better than eating plants.
  2. Almost everyone you meet will tell you carnivore is crazy because relative to the conventional wisdom (which is not based on science, and is utterly wrong) it is crazy. Before I started carnivore some 14 months ago, I thought it was totally extreme, and only for the crazies. What I have learnt in the last 14 months is that carnivore is our true correct ancestral diet and one that almost everyone will do best on (if they tried it). It is certainly the best way of eating I have ever done in the whole of my life (by a long way!). Bottom line: plants are just bad for you. Period. Stop eating them.

You might think this is extreme from where you are right now. My advice is try it for 90 days and see how you feel. Simply that. See how you feel. If you don’t feel better, then go to something else, but I am betting you will feel a lot better and you may get hooked (like I have been).

BTW:

  1. eating organ meats is totally unnecessary. No need whatsoever. Find the carni food you enjoy eating and focus on that.
  2. Eating out: keep it simple, and chill…. It may not be perfect carnivore, but relax, you’re supposed to be enjoying! I usually order a steak with no sides with some butter, and that usually works… worried about what it’s cooked in? Nah, it might not be great, but chill, and enjoy!

Take care, and best of luck.
Cheers
Alec

#44

I never tried lamb liver, I want to but it’s very hard to get lamb to begin with let alone liver… Sigh.

To me, beef liver was the mildest (but it was worse the second time) and pork and chicken are the less mild, they both have an extremely strong liver flavor even I who love liver find too much sometimes! Last time pork liver was milder too. But chicken liver is always “aggressive” so I can’t eat much of it unless I mix it with other things. Still good and I don’t need to eat so much of it anyway…

It seems these things are individual. Or maybe chicken liver in my country isn’t like chicken liver at other places? :smiley: Who knows. I have found great differences between pork and beef liver bought and ate in different times and I don’t think it was totally on me. Chicken liver always were about the same but sometimes I fancied it more so I liked it more then, no wonder.

#45

:scream_cat::crazy_face: my name is Karen too, and a just turned 61 yr old Karen at that HA and it took years for me to finally learn what the hell that meant and I wasn’t thrilled when I found it out either…I am not into learning ever about social media culture or slang or any of that crap…LOL…omgosh…I tell ya, the crazy out there of it all.

@Alecmcq, fab post!!

(Chuck) #46

We all get the nan sayer’s about our food choices even the ones close to us that see the wonderful changes in our bodies and lives. Don’t pay them any attention. As for as expensive cuts of meat I personally don’t think it is necessary for the ones of us that are just needing to lose weight, but we if you have a real health issue then it could be important.
I am not a purist keto person I am a low carb person that is brave enough to find my own way in this lifestyle. My only issue starting this lifestyle about 6 months ago was my weight, acid reflux, and blood pressure. I have lost 37 pounds so far, I have ditched all prescription medication but still have weight to lose. I have decided my body will determine its weight as I am eating a maintenance level diet. Since doing so my weight is dropping about a tenth of a pound daily. It is a slow process but a manageable process. My total carbs are averaging 50 but I have days is about 75 carbs and days of next to 20 carbs. I also don’t and couldn’t eat the same thing every day. I even charge my smoothies up every time I make one. Some say we are creatures of habit, which I am except for my eating habits.

#47

The keto / carne part is easy, you’ll find no shortage of info here and YT is great for meal plans and overall eating ideas, supermarket trips etc.

On the Psoriais, as another person with it, if you’ve really got to the point of half your body scaling, take the Corticosteroids! When you hit that level, you need to fight fire with fire. Plus they’re great for energy!

When you’ve got it all hiding again. Head & Shoulders! Seriously! Gotta get the one with the Pyrithione Zinc in it. Works as good as when I was using any of the creams including Clobetasol which is like dropping a Nuke on it!

Use it as a shampoo for your head (clearly) leave it on for a few minutes, also use it as a body wash, same thing, let it sit for a few while you’re doing other stuff. You can alternate that with a Salycilic Acid shampoo (as a soap) which will help clear up the scales.

Years, and tons of many times expensive steroids and finally switched dermatologists and they said to just use H&S and see how that worked, never went back to the steroids. Worst you see out of me now is a slight redness, that most wouldn’t even pick up on.

Also, although inflammation pisses is of, don’t think just because you scale up that you have a systemic inflammation problem, I’ve clocked my hsCRP VERY low while having breakouts. Sometimes it’s just in the mood to screw with you.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #48

Also, for itching, here’s a trick my cousin, a nurse, told me when I had a full-body case of poison ivy: “scratch” the itch by either immersing the body part in water as hot as you can stand (without scalding, naturally), or take a hair blower on hot heat and play it over the itch. It feels as good as digging your fingernails into your skin, but without the mechanical damage. You do have to be careful not to burn yourself, but the relief is impressive.

(Robin) #49

Huh, never heard of that. I don’t need that tip but my husband does.
(And he’s certainly not gonna eat better for results.)

(Uff ) #50

Well, I don’t have problems finding something to eat, my problem is I lose my appetite very quickly. Very rarely I can “feast”, like today I started with 500g/17.5oz of selfmade burger patties and I could only eat a third of it and I feel completely full since then. I am 1,92m/6’3ft and since I experience low energy from time to time I should eat more (fat especially) as I understand, but I have a very hard time with that.

Sadly I had no good experiences with Corticosteroids. I got an appointment with a new dermatologist in a few days and I highly suspect that he will prescribe biologics to me. Which other psoriasis patients I know had incredible results with.
Influencing immune system dysregulation by inhibiting certain receptors and immune cells sounds scary to me, but at this point I’m really willing to take anything to get this disease under control.

As for your other tips, thanks a lot, noted all of them and see what I will try out. :wink:

#51

Hello Karen/ Uff. Welcome to the forums.

This link searches psoriasis.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/search?q=Psoriasis

The carnivore diet is an excellent elimination diet for immune-mediated diseases. I think the Autoimmune Paleo protocol might be another option.

Yes, eat an elimination diet for a period of time. I used to suggest 8 weeks for patients back when I was a clinician. Then re-introduce foods you would like to test. That system works for self discovery.

As your condition is immune-mediated, doing a non-dairy version of carnivore may be more therapeutic.

I think Mikaela Peterson is a key person to look up in terms of using the carnivore diet therapeutically.

Regarding hints on trying the diet, I would suggest that a balance of amino acids is important. So bone broth daily will balance the increased muscle meat intake. Use a bone broth of the meat flavour you choose.

The other reason for bone broth is to add important electrolytes in a very low insulin diet to offset the sodium losses and other minerals that the sodium retention biochemistry sacrifices, like magnesium. Using a rock salt or pink salt added to the bone broth, more than @PaulL’s ‘pinch’ will resolve some unwanted side effects.

If that isn’t to your liking, Professor Steve Phinney’s daily bullion cube in hot water as a warm beverage will do the trick.

(Uff ) #52

Yeah bone broth is on my shopping list, but also expensive…and mostly cooked together with veggies and spices from the fodmap list though. But I will order some cans until I come home and cook up some bones myself.

Currently I am doing ok, but the consumption of so much cheap meat still bothers me. Although people here stated its ok, I am not sure about all the trace amounts of different drugs like antibiotics and such.
I went to an endocrinologist today and even he said that elimination diets can indeed help, but I should be very careful because those cheap meats can easily mess up my microbiome because I am pretty much microdosing myself with antibiotics.
I don’t know about the laws in other countries, but here when one animal gets treated with antibiotics all of the other animals get that treatment too. And the factoryraised animals get a lot of infections…

So yeah, that’s still worrying me a bit.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #53

I don’t know about that. The data show that antibiotics fed to cattle don’t show up in the meat. The data are pretty solid. And I don’t believe we understand enough about the microbiome yet to be able to make pronouncements about it.

The other question is whether we are going to let perfection compete with good enough. I mean, if even cheap meat is better for you than what you were eating before, isn’t that reason enough to take one step forward, even if grass-fed, antibiotic-free, and so forth would be even better? Why wait to change until you can do it perfectly, when an imperfect change still means a great improvement?

(Uff ) #54

The effects of too much antibiotics on my microbiome is something I experienced 10 years ago and it was pretty devastating. But in retrospective that experience should have told me that my skin conditions are mainly gut-related. After I got a severe overtreatment with antibiotics over almost a month, my gut flora was pretty much dead. Weeks of constant diarrhea, my psoriasis flared up so bad that my whole body was covered in plaques…and even small doses of antibiotics can trigger those problems now, but ofc not as devastating as back then.
So when someone mentions antibiotics my alarm goes off instantly :smiley:

No question that I will still continue the diet, maybe switch to keto if my experience stays as it is. Because I have a very hard time to get enough food in. Sadly I used to love eggs, but I get sick if I eat like more than 2 eggs. Even when I only eat the yolk. Also using butter was awesome at the beginning, but now my appetite disappears very quickly when I even think about it.
I just hope after corona destroyed my last career I will catch up quicker with my new one, so I can just spend my money on proper steaks. Because I probably will never get sick of steaks. :grin:

(Uff ) #55

I will use this thread to keep a bit of a diary and simply pust some updates on how things are going for myself.

I am like 3 weeks in now and experienced some benefits already. My heart rate has gone down, I seem to have a deeper sleep and I do not have to get up to pee anymore. Also, even when I had the carnivore diarrhea, my IBS feels WAY better.
I don’t have any brain fog or severe energy drops when I eat enough, appetite is still a problem.
But I already found out that I can not have chicken or duck and also should not eat egg whites a lot and instead just eat the yolks. Said foods seem to trigger my gut symptoms.

(Uff ) #56

First real drawback. Was fasting until afternoon and got incredibly hungry. Made myself a few beef patties and after I ate two I nearly had to puke, because I could not stand the taste anymore.
Perhaps I should have begun with keto instead of carnivore not shocking my system that much…and I guess that’s what I am gonna switch to now week if this doesn’t get better. And after some weeks on keto I am gonna try full carnivore again.
But perhaps I just have to realize that one diet does not work for everyone. :frowning:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #57

There’s an adjustment, now matter how you look at it. It takes generally six to eight weeks on keto to get fat-adapted, and then if one decides to go carnivore, the adaptation often takes three more months, or even longer. The best advice is to just ride it out and see. Once the adaptation is over, it will be much easier to see if the diet is benefiting you or not.

#58

Even when you are used to keto/carnivore, your taste may change temporarily… Sometimes I don’t even want my fav food, I simply eat something else then (but try to get in a few bites if I would have problems without it. I can’t just skip my main meat dish, usually but if I must, I do). Some of us need to have various options on hand.
Many carnivores can eat meat when hungry, no problem, I never will have that ability I fear :smiley: But I can handle it, I always have variety and I can be very creative when hungry with aversion to the meat I have and planned to eat. I always have other meats, I make sure of it.

(Uff ) #59

The thing is I can’t wait for months until this really “works” for me. :smiley:
I need to function at work, I can’t afford to feel nausea half of the day or have low energy crashes. My caloric intake should be around 2900-3000 calories a day. Even though this might change through diet I am not even close to that…if I only eat when hungry I eat like 1500calories which was fine at the beginning. Ketovore seems like a good option for a workaround since my body has adapted a bit more.
End of year I will get a pay raise and that would enable me to buy more steak, which I currently can not afford. Fatty ground beef is my main meat source, which seems to be problematic for many people getting into this diet.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #60

The idea is not to restrict calories intentionally, because that signals the body there is a famine going on. However, an appetite drop on keto/carnivore that occurs spontaneously is normal.

If you have been carnivore long enough for your insulin to drop, and if you have enough extra fat to be needing to shed some, then you are likely to be spontaneously eating about a thousand calories less than your daily energy expenditure, at least in the beginning, when you have the extra fat to take up the slack. Dr. Stephen Phinney and Prof. Jeff Volek have found that appetite on a well-formulated ketogenic diet eaten ad libitum drops by typically a thousand calories during the initial phase. Naturally, if we continue eating to satiety, our caloric intake automatically increases as our excess fat store diminishes, till by the time we are in maintenance mode, all our energy needs are being met from our food intake.

The recommendation on most carnivore sites is neither to fast nor to eat only once a day, but rather to eat in the normal pattern of three times a day. Of course, if you are really not wanting three meals a day, then don’t feel forced either way. Just don’t restrict your eating; let your body tell you what it needs.

Unfortunately, the adjustment period is what it is. If you really cannot manage to get through it, then perhaps this way of eating is not for you. Even keto takes an adjustment, because the body has deactivated the fatty-acid metabolic pathways, from lack of use, and reactivating those pathways and healing our mitochondria simply takes time. And people who start a ketogenic diet and later move to carnivore still find that there is an adjustment, though not as strenuous a one as when people go straight from the standard high-carb, low-fat diet.

(Uff ) #61

I could go on with the diet for longer for sure, but I would not be abled to do my job properly. And this could potentially also harm my co-workers if I am not concentrated of have severe energy problems.
I just ate my beef and feel not very good, but I also do not really feel sated and still have collywobbles. I then looked up some ketovore meals and my mouth started watering. :smiley:
This shows me that I just seem to be overwhelmed with the restrictive diet. So I will just switch to ketovore and once I feel fully adapted I can try going full carnivore again. Maybe when I don’t have to work in construction besides my normal job so I won’t stress my body too much.