Desperate and confused

(KM) #22

The deeper I dive the more frustrating it gets, in terms of restaurants. While the foods themselves sound fine (broccoli), chances are that pre-frozen broccoli is swimming in a “butter” sauce that’s anything but butter. Cheeseburger (even without the bun) - is that really cheese, or a laundry list of questionable crap?

(Just for amusement I looked up the ingredients in Velveeta: Skim Milk, Milk, Canola Oil, Milk Protein Concentrate, Sodium Phosphate, Contains Less than 2% of Modified Food Starch, Whey Protein Concentrate, Maltodextrin, Whey, Salt, Calcium Phosphate, Lactic Acid, Sorbic Acid as a Preservative, Milkfat, Sodium Alginate, Sodium Citrate, Enzymes, Apocarotenal and Annatto (Color), Cheese Culture, Vitamin A Palmitate. YUMMY!)

I don’t mean to sound like a total zealot; I agree that friends and family require some compromise, even if it means my personal goals are set back a bit. We eat out, too, and that means ordering an omelet and resigning myself to the idea it was probably cooking in canola oil. The world probably won’t stop tomorrow. :smirk:

ETA: Mark Sisson says, “insist that your food be cooked in butter.” Sounds like the perfect recipe for a snot-and-pee omelet if you ask me.

(Doug) #23

Exactly, and good point - often, in addition to all those chemicals, seed oils are included, making it not “just as good as real cheese,” but indeed really ‘crap,’ in my opinion.


Reading these things I don’t even know why I would go to a restaurant… Though I am not super choosy when it’s about a rare case. My body handles it. I always liked to make my own food most of the time and I always did.

If I go to somewhere, that will be a steakhouse, hopefully they don’t mess the stuff up. And they have sides like eggs and bacon.

In most of our opinion I suppose. With very good reason.
I prefer proper things anyway. Cheese being cheese.

(KM) #25

I totally agree, but one of the problems with culture here in the US (and many other places, I assume) is that “getting together” and “going out” are one and the same; given the sad state of commercial food, it either gets very expensive or very lonely.

(Chuck) #26

It all depends on if you worry about what others think about you or if you are someone like me that could care less what others think. I have learned to take care of myself and and not care what others think, anymore that even means my doctors too. I have learned to understand my own lab results and take the doctors comments for what it is worth to me.

(KM) #27

I’ll tread lightly here, but if your icon is actually a picture of you, you’re an age-established (but not over the hill) white male. I Love the idea of not caring what people think, and for the most part I don’t care, but as a small aging female (i.e. invisible, unimportant and probably stupid, basically a child without the cute factor, or if I speak up and hold my ground, an annoying “Karen” (and aren’t I lucky, that’s actually my name :astonished:)), my place in this hierarchy is not the same as yours, especially when it comes to medical Authorities complying with my requests.

I don’t mean to say it’s impossible to be myself, or that other people don’t have to fight for what they want too, but the results “out there” are often less than useful.

(Chuck) #28

I disagree with your thinking we all have the right to our opinions, and we all should stand up to those opinions. I have a grown granddaughter that isn’t even 5 foot tall, but she knows her rights and her opinions and she isn’t afraid to say so. I personally don’t care what nationality anyone is, what their color is, we anre all born equal in our makers eyes. I see all the crap you are talking about and I just shake my head.
I don’t believe in politics, politicians or anything of that nature. I believe we all are equal and while of different mindsets are equally important and should stand tall and be proud of ourselves.

(KM) #29

See there? “Stand tall”. Lol. It’s baked into the culture. I probably come up to your sternum. :laughing:

Seriously, I do the best I can to be that person, and I really respect your personal beliefs about equality, that’s fabulous and I wish everyone held your beliefs, but that just isn’t always my reality.

It’s sort of shocking to age, as a female. I find it fascinating when I’m not so put out about it … and I’d say this: Get back to me when you’re 90 and people assume you need help tying your shoes (even if you’re in the process of tying them they’ll assume you can’t) just because you’re old. Peace to you, Chuck. :v:

(Chuck) #30

I am also a Native American too

(KM) #31

In your picture you look like Steve Martin. :smile:

(Chuck) #32

I take after my dad, English side, my mom and her family were Apache.


I am a short woman and it’s just my own personality and attitude, I really don’t care about that others think especially about my own business. Never cared about this. They don’t have any influence over it anyway… My Mom theoretically had while I lived with her but I was stubborn enough to cut out food groups (and she isn’t the type who made me unable to follow my plan).
I even told doctors no, it’s actually what I normally do :smiley: My body, my decision, thankfully. Okay, I am healthy, it’s obviously easier when I merely need to refuse staying in hospital or getting my hand plastered. Nope, I refuse such barbaric outdated practices and leave whenever I feel like when I already can, obviously.
Maybe your circumstances are very different from mine and that’s why but I don’t see why my age, sex and other physical things would matter, they don’t to me. I heard about situations when they might though. I still wouldn’t let people tell me what to do as I am me but yep, maybe it would be more difficult.


Being tall and beautiful always mattered (youth or the lack of it too, it’s different in different cultures), it’s how things are but it seems to me that “standing tall” means that we have a spine and determination (Chuck talked about being proud of ourselves, yep, that’s it) and don’t take crap from anyone.
Yes, some bad things in the society or maybe just in some doctor’s head make this more difficult but there is a lot where we can make the decision about our life.

Oh yep people are like that, ignore them? Once Mom got a bit mad when a seller asked her if she could bring home the produce she bought… It was a few kgs. Mom lifted 50kg bags easily (I was 20 and much weaker). But we knew she is strong and other people’s imagination doesn’t really matter.
I actually find it so odd that people older than 20 or 30 care about other people’s stupid things. It must be super tiring. I learned it very quickly I should ignore things. It took me longer regarding certain things and injustice and miserable animals still could upset me to a small extent but I got so much better. But it’s probably my hedonism. If I feel bad and this feeling doesn’t power something useful, it’s a bad deal, not hedonistic at all. And not being hedonistic is a grave insult to me. Being perfectly hedonistic is my life goal, it’s one of the most important things ever. If I am really hedonistic, I do things right.

(KM) #35

There are a number of elements to my current feelings. Turning 60. Having been courted and respected as a younger woman because I was a catch, (and pretty blind about that and assuming it was just how everyone was treated). Moving to a new place where I know no one and trying to meet and engage with new people as this older woman. Moving to a place that’s a lot more conservative than where I came from. Some elements of the cultural norm seemingly coming out in my partner as I age. Watching how my mother is perceived and treated in her old age community (“Cute and helpless” because she’s 4’9" and 93, even though with people she’s not afraid of, like me, she’s often controlling and rude.) …

Ok, to the OP, I’m sorry about this digression, mea culpa. Don’t order the american cheese! :stuck_out_tongue:

(Uff ) #36

Very nice that you got rid of your eczema, that’s awesome. Besides my psoriasis I also got seborrhoeic eczema in my face.
Not planning on giving up tho, but maybe switching to ketovore fodmap style of eating over time depending on bloodwork results, my ibs and if I am really happy with eating carnivore.
Currently I still have the carnivore diarrhea 1-2 times a day although I followed some guidelines how to avoid this problem. Next thing I am gonna try is cooking some bone broth once I got the proper bones from the nearest farm. :slight_smile:
Also a big disappointment is that I can’t manage to eat organ meat. Tried heart and liver and I just can’t take the taste…gotta find a workaround for that. Or force myself to throw the stuff in a blender and shotgun it. :smiley:
But imho that should never happen in a lifetime diet. If you have to force stuff down your throat that can’t be right.


I agree (well I am a hedonist, I demand dishes at least 8 on a scale to 10 at least… I very rarely go lower. I am lucky as I find many carnivore food 10/10.) If you don’t exactly hate the flavor, mixing it with meat may help. I like liver but its taste easily can be too strong… But with meat? It’s fine. But as I wrote, I do like liver to begin with, I just find it too strong to eat sometimes.

Last time I just used sour cream on my chicken livers and inhaled 400g… :frowning: Liver is a small problem for me as it’s too nutritious and I would eat it in big amounts frequently… So it may be good you can’t eat like that.
Many people never eat organ meat, do you have some good reason to do so? Even then, the amount should be so tiny that it takes some serious dislike not to be able to eat it mixed with other things. I suppose. I can’t possibly know… I just extrapolate as sometimes I have meh food I don’t want to eat as it is and it’s easy. But it is always bland, dry, not having a strong flavor I dislike.
I only feel liver strong flavored, heart is nice and tongue is the best. (I don’t know their nutritional values, only read about liver though.)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

Organ meat is not a requirement, either for keto or for carnivore. Don’t feel obliged to like it.

To me, beef heart tastes just like any other cut of beef.

Liver, of course, is an acquired taste, and it tastes actually quite nice, if it is not overcooked. My mother used to cook liver 20 minutes on each side (that’s an exaggeration, of course, but not by all that much, alas!), and her liver was tough as shoe leather and tasted like sandpaper. When forced by good manners to choke down some liver in adulthood, I was surprised to find that it was delicious. I asked the cook her secret, when she came out to receive our compliments, and it was not to cook the stuff more than 90 seconds on each side. What a revelation! No more sandpaper!

I had some steak and kidney pie once that tasted urinous, and it has put me off kidneys ever since.

Tongue is delicious (similar to corned beef) but nearly impossible to find in the U.S. anymore. And brains have been off the market since the mad cow episode 20 years ago.


Meanwhile some of us wouldn’t eat raw liver, we need the 20-40-whatever minutes to make it just right :slight_smile: It depends on a lot of things, of course, beef liver needs a surprisingly short time, no way I ever can fry chicken liver under 20-30 minutes (honestly IDK, next time I will measure the time) but if I used the oven and a huge amount? One hour sounds good for that. Of course the heat matters too.

Liver tastes the same to me when not too raw (no one can force me to taste that), it’s just harder when overcooked (if that thing exists but now I suspect it does, I just have no patience to reach that and it would be a waste too)… Until we enter charcoal territory, okay, the taste gets bitter then but it really takes a ton of time or some extreme flames. Liver is very lively so I use a lid and it becomes cooking, not frying, it stays fine but gets cooked. And then I fry it well too… Not too much as I love my liver tender :slight_smile:

(Uff ) #40

Well pure liver just isn’t for me, mixing it with something else could work though. I tried it even raw and just the taste and texture is too much for me. Never tried chicken liver but sadly I will have to stay away from chicken in general since I found out that chicken definetly isn’t good for my gut health and probably also triggers some skin issues.
I like “Leberwurst” though and chances are high that here in germany somewhere a high quality “Leberwurst” can be found. Usually they use 20-40% liver for it and since it is so nutrient dense this could also work I guess. :smiley:
Besides that I worry a bit about my low Kalium intake. Gotta research this topic tomorrow I guess. :smiley:

(Megan) #41

Hi @Uff, welcome to the forum.

I’ve been eating carnivore for 10 months now. If your psoriasis is in any way connected to and influenced by the food you eat, eating carnivore is worth a shot because it eliminates a lot of foods that can cause folks problems: processed foods, seed oils, sugar, grains etc.

Don’t worry about not being able to afford “premium” meats and eggs, many people eating carnivore eat grain fed or grain finished beef and mass produced eggs. Budget constraints are real and these foods still provide excellent nutrition. Also don’t worry about not wanting to eat organ meat. Many carnivores don’t. If you really want to add in some e.g. liver you can try to cut it up into very small pieces, stir it through some ground beef, form it into patties and cook. Also lamb liver is milder in taste to beef.

I eat some dairy (heavy cream in my coffee, some colby cheese and unsweetened greek yoghurt at times) but I’d recommend you remove dairy initially, given you’re using carnivore as an elimination diet while you go through the process of finding out what foods do and don’t aggravate your psoriasis.

I haven’t had any bad health experiences eating this way. Weight loss has been steady (20kg so far), and my arthritis is very much improved, both in pain and swelling, and I no longer need knee replacement surgery. I also have fibromyalgia and the all over body pain from that is considerably less, too.

Regarding weight loss, I am definitely not “on a diet”. I don’t calorie count and I don’t calorie restrict. I have hungry days and eat more until I satisfy the hunger, I have not particularly hungry days and on those days I eat less. I definitely ate a lot more when I first started, and for a good 6 or so months. Lately I’ve noticed my appetite has decreased somewhat. But I still have hungry days and feed my body well when that happens. I eat a good 1,000 calories a day more than the calorie calc websites say I “should” to maintain my body weight, and for the 1st 6 or so months I ate a good 2,000 calories a day more. Yet I have steadily and consistently lost weight and continue to. It’s slowed down the past 3 or so months but I expected that as I’m getting quite close to my “ideal” weight.

So, if you have it in mind that you need to “go on a diet”, toss that thought. Nourish your body. Support it to transition into zero carb and begin the process of healing the stuff that responds to dietary change. Not everything does and will, but here’s hoping psoriasis is one of the things that will!

All the best and keep us posted!! Ask questions, share concerns, struggles and successes. You aren’t alone, even if you don’t have people in your day to day life to talk to about this kind of thing.