Desperate and confused

(Uff ) #1

Hello folks,

first of all I apologise if there are some mistakes in my probably too long text, my English is not quite perfect yet.

I am 41 years old and gained a lot of weight during Corona. Only now have I finally managed to get a grip on it, I regularly go to the gym and eat healthy.
I have had psoriasis on and off since I was 13 but in the last 12 years it got so worse I pretty much stopped dating (no sex life too ofc) and with some other issues I had it drove me pretty near to depression. After my first covid shot it got so bad that as of now probably half of my body is covered in red, scaly patches and it is driving me insane.
Finding a good dermatologist is also insane in my region, had to wait months for my first two appointments and they only wanted to pump me full of cortisone. No thanks, got enough from that in the past.

So I researched what I could do through diet, I had already been on a ketogenic diet for about a year and that didn’t help much. Then I came across the carnivore diet and the supposed successes that people have achieved with it. I’ve been on the carnivore diet for a week now, but I still have my reservations. Especially because I can’t afford to buy only grassfed beef and farm eggs. Does this diet even make sense then?
Also, everyone around me advises against it, from acquaintances to family to various doctors. That’s why I’m just unsure and can’t talk with nobody about it who has an unbiased opinion.

My plan is to follow this diet for at least 2 months and see if my skin improves. And then slowly introduce different types of vegetables and some fruit again to find out which of them might trigger my autoimmune reaction. Does that make sense?
Dr. Chaffee and Dr. Berry are the sources I first found on YouTube, but I am put off by Dr. Chaffee’s extreme views on plant foods. In my experience, people with “extreme” diets often have a strongly ideological point of view, which makes me doubt their objectivity.
But ofc I could be completely wrong about that. :smiley:

What “advice” do you have for me? Are there people here who have had bad health experiences with the carnivore diet? I’d like to dig through the forum myself, but I’m involved in a big project at the moment and can’t get anything done.
I would be very grateful for any tips or experience reports, links or anything that might help me. My concern may seem silly to many, but I think it is simply because there have been many heart problems in my family.

Thanks in advance, sorry for this wall of text. I will continue to read and research the forum when I am back home in 2 weeks.

(KM) #2

Welcome to the forums! Your English looks flawless to me. :slightly_smiling_face:

What you are talking about is basically an “elimination diet” - cutting out the foods that are most likely to cause inflammation and then adding them back. This is a time tested method of pinpointing problem foods, good idea.

From my perspective, keto is better than no keto, even if the low carb foods available aren’t “the best”. Keto, as I guess you understand, involves keeping your carbohydrate intake very low - most people recommend below 20 carbs a day at first. So adding in fruits is not really part of a keto diet, but it might still be healthy and work for you. First things first, though.

Most “regular folks” quail in horror at the idea of cutting out starches, sugars and grains, let alone all plant foods. I’d be surprised if anyone here hasn’t had to face resistance, and if your social set isn’t geared toward a scientific perspective it’s even harder. As the old saying goes, keep calm and keto on. Or Carni on, as the case may be. Best of luck, I’m sure you’ll find support and great advice here.

Edited: Why is your icon a great big Bun??? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#3

I don’t know about psoriasis, but am sure others on this forum will have experience with it and comment. Please don’t feel as though you can only eat grass fed meat or pastured eggs. They are probably a tiny bit better, but not required. Buy the meat and eggs you can afford.

I hope you find answers soon!

(Uff ) #5

Hey, yeah well…before I even think about fruits I gotta eat through all the vegetables I like one at a time. This will take long enough I guess. :smiley:
I am just worried that the cheaper meat might not help against my inflammatory problems and that in the end I won’t get proper results because of that. But I guess I got no other options anyway.

Thanks again for the kind words guys, I am still highly motivated and hoping for the best. So far I got no carb withdrawal symptoms, just the diarrhea like once or twice a day which I can live with because I also suffer from irritable bowel syndrom :smiley:

Oh and regarding to the bun icon, I don’t remember why I chose it for my google acc to be honest. :smiley:

(KM) #6

Ah, Google. That explains everything. :laughing:

I understand your concern about less than ideal meat choices, I struggle with that too. It is ridiculously difficult and very expensive where I am to find the quality of food I’d really like to be eating. We do what we can, right? This is a personal experiment for all of us, hopefully what’s available to you will help, in any case it probably doesn’t hurt to try.

There are people here who have been doing carnivore or nearly carnivore for years without any apparent ill effects, so it’s not necessarily essential to re-introduce plant foods, at least for some.

My latest video-bingeing has me concerned about seed oils (soybean, cottonseed, corn, vegetable, safflower, canola oil etc.). One really nice thing about a carni diet is that by definition it doesn’t contain them. So in doing carni you’re also eliminating those, which I can only see as a big plus.

(Uff ) #7

Yeah sure, the arguments really seem plausible and I really hope I won’t get mislead because that already happened in the past when I got convinced going vegan for a time would solve those problems. And I probably never felt worse than on a vegan diet.
But I also can’t see mysef as a lifetime carnivore, even if it works. I would probably switch to ketovore because there is just WAY too many yummy stuff you can cook with butter, meat and some veggies. :smiley:

But if this really makes my psoriasis better, I can see myself convincing a lot of other people to give it a try. Because I tried EVERYTHING there is, I only skipped the biologics because I only want to take those if really nothing else helps.

(KM) #8

If you have the time to get all science-y about it, look up “glycocalyx”. I’m wondering if this might be a good place to start gut research, both in terms of inflammation response and IBS, but I don’t know enough yet to speak on it.

(Robin) #9

Welcome! I think your plan is solid. It could take few months to see a difference or could be fast. Adding back one food at a time to see the results is smart! That’s how many of us found our way. Good luck.
You got this!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #10

First, welcome to the forums!

Give it plenty of time before deciding whether it is working for you or not. Three months is not too long, and six would probably be better. You don’t need to buy grassfed beef and free-range eggs. They might be better for you, but the stuff you can afford is good enough. Don’t forget, if you are not buying any processed foods, that money becomes available to pay for the meat. When you consider the cost per amount of protein, meat is still a pretty good deal, even though the price per pound/kilo is higher. Also, if it works to control the psoriasis, you will be saving on medication costs.

They are both good guys. I feel the same way about Dr. Chaffee’s views, but I take them with a grain of salt (figuratively!). It is true that plants are not as good for us as everyone says, but not everyone needs to avoid them entirely. Some people may need to, but not everyone. Dr. Berry is also good to listen to. I find, though, again, you need to find out what works best for you. Take these guys’ advice as suggestions to try, not as the final word for what you must do.

There is a wealth of information in our Carnivore forum, so be sure to check it out. There is also a thread of resources about the carnivore diet in our Science forum. The forum search function works pretty well (unlike the search function in social media, which is deliberately broken), so don’t hesitate to try it out.

You might wish to check out Charles Washington’s Facebook group, “Zeroing in on Health.” Also Dr. Georgia Ede has a wealth of information at her Web site. You might also want to search for posts and videos by L. Amber O’Hearn. These three are all long-term carnivores with a deep interest in human nutrition.

(KM) #11

Actually, Paul, you take everything with a literal grain of salt, don’t you? :stuck_out_tongue:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

This is a matter of perspective. If going carnivore cures your psoriasis, you might be so happy with that way of eating, you’ll continue. Consider it like this: if you had an allergy to nuts or shellfish, would you continue to eat them, knowing that anaphylactic shock can be fatal? You wouldn’t, of course, and perhaps the benefit of doing without psoriasis will prove so useful that you won’t mind not eating vegetables anymore. Just keep an open mind, that’s all.

Dr. Georgia Ede, a well-known long-term carnivore, says that she loves vegetables and would love to eat them, but her health is so much better on an all-meat diet that she has no problem doing without plant foods. Other long-term carnivores feel the same.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

LOL! :bacon::bacon:

(Uff ) #14

Sounds good, thank you. :smiley:
I also just read “Stay off My Operating Table” from Dr. Olvaida which was way more opened to other diets besides strictly carnivore, so his standpoint didn’t feel biased at all. Six months just carnivore will be hard for me, but I will try my very best. I am sick and tired of all the issues I got. Overweight, psoriasis, allergic asthma…time to change. :smiley:

#15

I say in advance that I know nothing about your disease and what carnivore can do for it, I just react in general.

I can’t afford ruminant meat regularly. No problem. Carnivore or anything close to it is still WAY better for me than having a significant amount of plant carbs.
Of course, it’s me but many others say the same. Some people are more sensitive but to me? The cheapest meats work fine as long as I like them and stay away from plants (except a tiny bit for fun, maybe).
It is totally worth to buy what you can and try it, at least. Maybe it will work for you. My body is healthy enough and resilient - except when it comes to non-animal carbs. So carnivore gave me benefits while normal keto didn’t (beyond fat adaptation). It still matters what exactly I eat but as long as I don’t eat a lot of plants, it’s MUCH better for me. So it’s not like you need to do some perfect fancy expensive carnivore because only that could possibly help. But again, IDK what helps with your problem. (Even so, carnivore may make other things better. I was even healthy on high-carb but it doesn’t mean I couldn’t feel better on low-carb and later on - and close to - carnivore. The positive changes came when I lowered carbs even if I didn’t do everything as most people advise as ideal.)

Yeah, people do that. Carnivore isn’t what is trendy nowadays for the masses. It doesn’t mean it’s not the best some of us can do.

It happens. Some people realizes they need vegs for some reason even though they aren’t essential for the human body and many of us are better without. Some people feel worse if they eat pork. Some feel bad if they eat beef, even. There is egg allergy and many people have problems with dairy or at least an excessive amount of it… Just like with keto, it’s not like you can eat whatever on that diet and it will be magically great. You may need to finetune it for yourself.

As it was basically obvious, I am not even a carnivore, I just try to stay close to it (sometimes it happens, sometimes I go off but can’t stay away for long because carni is better and I am a hedonist and health-conscious too), the real and proper full carnivores surely can tell you smarter things.

Maybe because I am almost a hermit and my family isn’t the type that tries to question my woe, I never could even subtly shock or make argue anyone :frowning: It’s boring :D. But nice in family settings so okay.
When I was a vegetarian, that was very different and vegetarianism is so much more common! But my family (except my Mom and I, I was raised on mostly vegetarian food, we had meat but far from every day) was very much into meat. When (decades later) I ate 12 chicken drumsticks at once with no sides or anything, there wasn’t even a surprised look…

But yes, I am aware this must be a special case. People just don’t get how quitting all those “essential” nutritious healthy plants can be not super unhealthy. While they have no idea about the vitamin content of meat, for example. They just think about the few things we hear and read a lot. Even weather sites talk about eating a ton of fresh vegs and fruit! Probably most people don’t even know that carbs aren’t essential and it’s not even a secret, easy to find…

That was my thought: IDK if it will affect your results or to what extent but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it off carnivore either but just lowering plant carbs (and other potentially problematic plant things) may give you benefits.

Good luck!

That fine… And you may change :smiley: I ADORED vegs and now I just never eat them except in super tiny amounts here and there. I lost interest and carnivore is to blame. It was SURREAL for years but I am used to it already.
But I am one who benefits greatly from carnivore-ish days even if I do off a lot. It would be better not to, probably, I imagine going off just sometimes would be the best (I don’t care about vegs but I won’t give up my fruits and walnuts) so I am working on it. Others experienced it’s best to stick to carnivore though. Our bodies and minds are just too different so we need a different approach.
It’s still worth to try, even if you can’t imagine staying all the time or doing it clean right away or long term or whatever. My body always gets happier if I eat less carbs, even if it’s not perfect and with higher-carb days. It even accept high-carb days sometimes but I should aim for very low on normal days… And I train myself to do it better in the future. I already changed a lot!

(Uff ) #16

That’s true, of course. At the moment, it’s just a shame that I can’t talk seriously about my experiences and this little journey with anyone in my inner circle. Especially with my best buddy with whom I can actually talk about everything and who is overweight himself. But no, he was rather annoyed because the restaurant selection is now smaller where we can go eat something.

The topic is really interesting and you learn a lot. I am currently looking into a lot of criticism to the carnivore diet and analyze their arguments as far as I can. And so far, all opponents of the diet were biased and you could refute their arguments or at least question them easily. Serious doctors who are skeptical about the whole thing, however, still recognize the sense of the diet in losing weight or curing autoimmune diseases.
This has also calmed my “fears” somewhat. :slight_smile:

#17

for carnivore read this site as you can:

then ya got: Zero Carb Information Videos

then ya got:

and this:

Get thru alot of that and you find tons of answers ya want. Best of luck.

(KM) #18

What I’m discovering is that nearly all of the nutritional advice given by the experts, even that based on scientific evidence, is based on studies of people on a SAD diet. Not to say it wouldn’t apply to carnivores and ketovores, but it’s possible it doesn’t. For example, the advice that lots of fiber, and therefore lots of plant material, is needed for gut health. Maybe, but maybe not, if you’re producing plenty of butyrate through ketosis. There are a lot of other things that may not apply in terms of vitamins, blood markers, etc etc.

It can be very tiring to have to combat common wisdom with scientific evidence to the contrary (common wisdom given by people who aren’t interested in science, especially) every time you turn around.

Frankly your buddy should be glad you can go anywhere! I’m trying to get rid of seed oils in addition to carbs and processed foods, which means I can basically go to restaurants and eat… Black coffee. Which is actually a plant food and technically cheating.

(Marianne) #19

You’ll get that reaction whether you’re doing carnivore/zero carb or keto. I don’t listen to the naysayers, even my doctors. They are basing their recommendations on old science supported by big agriculture and big pharma, without keeping up with new findings that debunk this old way of thinking. Bring your questions here. There is a ton of science supporting keto and carnivore and many people on this forum who have actually studied it and can speak intelligently to it.

You may require more time than that to see significant changes in your skin. The body is an amazing thing, however it takes time to undo what years of unhealthy eating have done internally. Try to find foods and choices that satisfy and that you can live with comfortably for the long term. I hope you start to see the changes that you are hoping for.

Best on your journey.

(Uff ) #20

Yeah well, we have many restaurants here that serve grilled meat. The only thing that could be a problem are the spices they use. But going out once a month for dinner with 2 friends is something I won’t miss out on. :smiley:

Yeah that is something I learned years ago. I got mistreated by doctors in my youth and they fked up my skin even more with all the high dosed cortison cremes. Nobody EVER came close to giving me real advice in the past 30 years. I lost a lot of trust in the health care system that way…not all of it ofc, but a lot.

True, I don’t expect the psoriasis to be gone after 2 months even though I saw incredible results on other people. But if this diet works at least it should get a bit better I guess. Ofc I made pictures, so if I suceed I will post some before/after pictures in this thread. :smiley:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #21

I have been getting an eczema-like condition on the backs of my palms for many years now. It starts when the temperature drops in autumn and ends with the warm spring weather. It took over a year on keto for me to see an improvement, and only a couple of years ago did it fail to show up. This year, it didn’t start till February (I’ve been yielding to carb temptations, so it wasn’t exactly a surprise.)

So the moral of the story is to give things plenty of time before giving up.