Desperate and confused


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

This is a matter of perspective. If going carnivore cures your psoriasis, you might be so happy with that way of eating, you’ll continue. Consider it like this: if you had an allergy to nuts or shellfish, would you continue to eat them, knowing that anaphylactic shock can be fatal? You wouldn’t, of course, and perhaps the benefit of doing without psoriasis will prove so useful that you won’t mind not eating vegetables anymore. Just keep an open mind, that’s all.

Dr. Georgia Ede, a well-known long-term carnivore, says that she loves vegetables and would love to eat them, but her health is so much better on an all-meat diet that she has no problem doing without plant foods. Other long-term carnivores feel the same.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

LOL! :bacon::bacon:


(Uff ) #14

Sounds good, thank you. :smiley:
I also just read “Stay off My Operating Table” from Dr. Olvaida which was way more opened to other diets besides strictly carnivore, so his standpoint didn’t feel biased at all. Six months just carnivore will be hard for me, but I will try my very best. I am sick and tired of all the issues I got. Overweight, psoriasis, allergic asthma…time to change. :smiley:


#15

I say in advance that I know nothing about your disease and what carnivore can do for it, I just react in general.

I can’t afford ruminant meat regularly. No problem. Carnivore or anything close to it is still WAY better for me than having a significant amount of plant carbs.
Of course, it’s me but many others say the same. Some people are more sensitive but to me? The cheapest meats work fine as long as I like them and stay away from plants (except a tiny bit for fun, maybe).
It is totally worth to buy what you can and try it, at least. Maybe it will work for you. My body is healthy enough and resilient - except when it comes to non-animal carbs. So carnivore gave me benefits while normal keto didn’t (beyond fat adaptation). It still matters what exactly I eat but as long as I don’t eat a lot of plants, it’s MUCH better for me. So it’s not like you need to do some perfect fancy expensive carnivore because only that could possibly help. But again, IDK what helps with your problem. (Even so, carnivore may make other things better. I was even healthy on high-carb but it doesn’t mean I couldn’t feel better on low-carb and later on - and close to - carnivore. The positive changes came when I lowered carbs even if I didn’t do everything as most people advise as ideal.)

Yeah, people do that. Carnivore isn’t what is trendy nowadays for the masses. It doesn’t mean it’s not the best some of us can do.

It happens. Some people realizes they need vegs for some reason even though they aren’t essential for the human body and many of us are better without. Some people feel worse if they eat pork. Some feel bad if they eat beef, even. There is egg allergy and many people have problems with dairy or at least an excessive amount of it… Just like with keto, it’s not like you can eat whatever on that diet and it will be magically great. You may need to finetune it for yourself.

As it was basically obvious, I am not even a carnivore, I just try to stay close to it (sometimes it happens, sometimes I go off but can’t stay away for long because carni is better and I am a hedonist and health-conscious too), the real and proper full carnivores surely can tell you smarter things.

Maybe because I am almost a hermit and my family isn’t the type that tries to question my woe, I never could even subtly shock or make argue anyone :frowning: It’s boring :D. But nice in family settings so okay.
When I was a vegetarian, that was very different and vegetarianism is so much more common! But my family (except my Mom and I, I was raised on mostly vegetarian food, we had meat but far from every day) was very much into meat. When (decades later) I ate 12 chicken drumsticks at once with no sides or anything, there wasn’t even a surprised look…

But yes, I am aware this must be a special case. People just don’t get how quitting all those “essential” nutritious healthy plants can be not super unhealthy. While they have no idea about the vitamin content of meat, for example. They just think about the few things we hear and read a lot. Even weather sites talk about eating a ton of fresh vegs and fruit! Probably most people don’t even know that carbs aren’t essential and it’s not even a secret, easy to find…

That was my thought: IDK if it will affect your results or to what extent but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it off carnivore either but just lowering plant carbs (and other potentially problematic plant things) may give you benefits.

Good luck!

That fine… And you may change :smiley: I ADORED vegs and now I just never eat them except in super tiny amounts here and there. I lost interest and carnivore is to blame. It was SURREAL for years but I am used to it already.
But I am one who benefits greatly from carnivore-ish days even if I do off a lot. It would be better not to, probably, I imagine going off just sometimes would be the best (I don’t care about vegs but I won’t give up my fruits and walnuts) so I am working on it. Others experienced it’s best to stick to carnivore though. Our bodies and minds are just too different so we need a different approach.
It’s still worth to try, even if you can’t imagine staying all the time or doing it clean right away or long term or whatever. My body always gets happier if I eat less carbs, even if it’s not perfect and with higher-carb days. It even accept high-carb days sometimes but I should aim for very low on normal days… And I train myself to do it better in the future. I already changed a lot!


(Uff ) #16

That’s true, of course. At the moment, it’s just a shame that I can’t talk seriously about my experiences and this little journey with anyone in my inner circle. Especially with my best buddy with whom I can actually talk about everything and who is overweight himself. But no, he was rather annoyed because the restaurant selection is now smaller where we can go eat something.

The topic is really interesting and you learn a lot. I am currently looking into a lot of criticism to the carnivore diet and analyze their arguments as far as I can. And so far, all opponents of the diet were biased and you could refute their arguments or at least question them easily. Serious doctors who are skeptical about the whole thing, however, still recognize the sense of the diet in losing weight or curing autoimmune diseases.
This has also calmed my “fears” somewhat. :slight_smile:


#17

for carnivore read this site as you can:

then ya got: Zero Carb Information Videos

then ya got:

and this:

Get thru alot of that and you find tons of answers ya want. Best of luck.


(KM) #18

What I’m discovering is that nearly all of the nutritional advice given by the experts, even that based on scientific evidence, is based on studies of people on a SAD diet. Not to say it wouldn’t apply to carnivores and ketovores, but it’s possible it doesn’t. For example, the advice that lots of fiber, and therefore lots of plant material, is needed for gut health. Maybe, but maybe not, if you’re producing plenty of butyrate through ketosis. There are a lot of other things that may not apply in terms of vitamins, blood markers, etc etc.

It can be very tiring to have to combat common wisdom with scientific evidence to the contrary (common wisdom given by people who aren’t interested in science, especially) every time you turn around.

Frankly your buddy should be glad you can go anywhere! I’m trying to get rid of seed oils in addition to carbs and processed foods, which means I can basically go to restaurants and eat… Black coffee. Which is actually a plant food and technically cheating.


(Marianne) #19

You’ll get that reaction whether you’re doing carnivore/zero carb or keto. I don’t listen to the naysayers, even my doctors. They are basing their recommendations on old science supported by big agriculture and big pharma, without keeping up with new findings that debunk this old way of thinking. Bring your questions here. There is a ton of science supporting keto and carnivore and many people on this forum who have actually studied it and can speak intelligently to it.

You may require more time than that to see significant changes in your skin. The body is an amazing thing, however it takes time to undo what years of unhealthy eating have done internally. Try to find foods and choices that satisfy and that you can live with comfortably for the long term. I hope you start to see the changes that you are hoping for.

Best on your journey.


(Uff ) #20

Yeah well, we have many restaurants here that serve grilled meat. The only thing that could be a problem are the spices they use. But going out once a month for dinner with 2 friends is something I won’t miss out on. :smiley:

Yeah that is something I learned years ago. I got mistreated by doctors in my youth and they fked up my skin even more with all the high dosed cortison cremes. Nobody EVER came close to giving me real advice in the past 30 years. I lost a lot of trust in the health care system that way…not all of it ofc, but a lot.

True, I don’t expect the psoriasis to be gone after 2 months even though I saw incredible results on other people. But if this diet works at least it should get a bit better I guess. Ofc I made pictures, so if I suceed I will post some before/after pictures in this thread. :smiley:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #21

I have been getting an eczema-like condition on the backs of my palms for many years now. It starts when the temperature drops in autumn and ends with the warm spring weather. It took over a year on keto for me to see an improvement, and only a couple of years ago did it fail to show up. This year, it didn’t start till February (I’ve been yielding to carb temptations, so it wasn’t exactly a surprise.)

So the moral of the story is to give things plenty of time before giving up.


(KM) #22

The deeper I dive the more frustrating it gets, in terms of restaurants. While the foods themselves sound fine (broccoli), chances are that pre-frozen broccoli is swimming in a “butter” sauce that’s anything but butter. Cheeseburger (even without the bun) - is that really cheese, or a laundry list of questionable crap?

(Just for amusement I looked up the ingredients in Velveeta: Skim Milk, Milk, Canola Oil, Milk Protein Concentrate, Sodium Phosphate, Contains Less than 2% of Modified Food Starch, Whey Protein Concentrate, Maltodextrin, Whey, Salt, Calcium Phosphate, Lactic Acid, Sorbic Acid as a Preservative, Milkfat, Sodium Alginate, Sodium Citrate, Enzymes, Apocarotenal and Annatto (Color), Cheese Culture, Vitamin A Palmitate. YUMMY!)

I don’t mean to sound like a total zealot; I agree that friends and family require some compromise, even if it means my personal goals are set back a bit. We eat out, too, and that means ordering an omelet and resigning myself to the idea it was probably cooking in canola oil. The world probably won’t stop tomorrow. :smirk:

ETA: Mark Sisson says, “insist that your food be cooked in butter.” Sounds like the perfect recipe for a snot-and-pee omelet if you ask me.


(Doug) #23

Exactly, and good point - often, in addition to all those chemicals, seed oils are included, making it not “just as good as real cheese,” but indeed really ‘crap,’ in my opinion.


#24

Reading these things I don’t even know why I would go to a restaurant… Though I am not super choosy when it’s about a rare case. My body handles it. I always liked to make my own food most of the time and I always did.

If I go to somewhere, that will be a steakhouse, hopefully they don’t mess the stuff up. And they have sides like eggs and bacon.

In most of our opinion I suppose. With very good reason.
I prefer proper things anyway. Cheese being cheese.


(KM) #25

I totally agree, but one of the problems with culture here in the US (and many other places, I assume) is that “getting together” and “going out” are one and the same; given the sad state of commercial food, it either gets very expensive or very lonely.


(Chuck) #26

It all depends on if you worry about what others think about you or if you are someone like me that could care less what others think. I have learned to take care of myself and and not care what others think, anymore that even means my doctors too. I have learned to understand my own lab results and take the doctors comments for what it is worth to me.


(KM) #27

I’ll tread lightly here, but if your icon is actually a picture of you, you’re an age-established (but not over the hill) white male. I Love the idea of not caring what people think, and for the most part I don’t care, but as a small aging female (i.e. invisible, unimportant and probably stupid, basically a child without the cute factor, or if I speak up and hold my ground, an annoying “Karen” (and aren’t I lucky, that’s actually my name :astonished:)), my place in this hierarchy is not the same as yours, especially when it comes to medical Authorities complying with my requests.

I don’t mean to say it’s impossible to be myself, or that other people don’t have to fight for what they want too, but the results “out there” are often less than useful.


(Chuck) #28

I disagree with your thinking we all have the right to our opinions, and we all should stand up to those opinions. I have a grown granddaughter that isn’t even 5 foot tall, but she knows her rights and her opinions and she isn’t afraid to say so. I personally don’t care what nationality anyone is, what their color is, we anre all born equal in our makers eyes. I see all the crap you are talking about and I just shake my head.
I don’t believe in politics, politicians or anything of that nature. I believe we all are equal and while of different mindsets are equally important and should stand tall and be proud of ourselves.


(KM) #29

See there? “Stand tall”. Lol. It’s baked into the culture. I probably come up to your sternum. :laughing:

Seriously, I do the best I can to be that person, and I really respect your personal beliefs about equality, that’s fabulous and I wish everyone held your beliefs, but that just isn’t always my reality.

It’s sort of shocking to age, as a female. I find it fascinating when I’m not so put out about it … and I’d say this: Get back to me when you’re 90 and people assume you need help tying your shoes (even if you’re in the process of tying them they’ll assume you can’t) just because you’re old. Peace to you, Chuck. :v:


(Chuck) #30

I am also a Native American too


(KM) #31

In your picture you look like Steve Martin. :smile: