Deeper State Keto (90 Day Cut) - My Journey!

#84

I hear you!

I have not lost any weight since September and have not changed dress size since December. It is frustrating and fasting does not seem to make a difference anymore.

Reading your story I have often wondered what would happen if you stopped exercising completely for 6 weeks I am sure it is unimagineable.

I still also do not understand how you can exercise for hours a day on 1700 calories and not lose weight but then I ate nothing for days recently and did not lose weight (well I did but it was not much and it came right back). I am at a set point that my body has decided to defend, not sure why it chose this one but there seems to be nothing I can do. I am a little stressed, not because of exercise but because of minor anxiety related to daily life that I am worried about. I have wondered if I start exercising again for relaxation rather than to lose weight whether that will help.

What about the Ted Naiman high protein protocol? Jimmy Moore on the Keto Hacking MD podcast tried it recently. He did not feel good on it but it does seem to encourage weight loss.

I agree with the other posters that you should consult the people running your program to see if they have any ideas

(Doug) #85

Very confounding, Andrea. I don’t see how your metabolism could have slowed down enough to account for the caloric deficit.

In the larger picture, it seems to me that you have to walk a tightrope - and it may be vanishingly thin.

(Chris) #86

FWIW, I think you need to forget about trying to count exercise calories. There is no way you are going to be any where near accurate unless you are in a laboratory setting. So many variables to compound.

(Lonnie Hedley) #87

So have you completed the program? I believe you mentioned you should have started at a higher calorie surplus in a previous post. Are you going to give it some time then try increasing calories to a fairly high level (3-3500) and give the cut another try?

(What The Fast?!) #88

Great question! I did 7 weeks of the program, but after my test results yesterday - 0.5 loss of LBM, reduced metabolic rate, I’m going to increase my calories to around 1900 a day, then try and slowly reverse UP my calories to both drive up my metabolism/daily burn rate and give myself more runway for when I do cut. Right now, I’m training for a century ride and seeing that this is the time of year for cycling, I’m going to continue fueling/training for athletic performance. I’m hoping that by increasing my calories, I actually start losing weight, but if I can at least maintain while I’m training, that works.

Then, when cycling season comes to an end (e.g. it gets cold out), I’ll start back to weight training with smaller amounts of cardio, along with Pilates, and I’ll do the DSK cut as prescribed.

(What The Fast?!) #89

I get what you’re saying, but I’m also a big believer in heart rate training. My b/f works for Polar and has very in-depth knowledge of the science behind this. I’m actually getting my V02 Max tested this week as well, which will give us an even more accurate picture of my heart rate profile and caloric burn.

(What The Fast?!) #90

Is this the PSMF protocol?

(Doug) #91

Cool, Andrea.

I wish there was a cheap (enough) home unit for doing V02 Max and Resting Metabolic Rate. Would love to mess around with it.

(What The Fast?!) #92

Yeah I totally geek out over that stuff. The RMR is $75, as is the V02 Max. I wouldn’t bother with V02 Max, but I’m planning to start implementing some MAF training and want to see what my HR zones are. Interestingly, being fat adapted can push up your upper limit for aerobic training zones. Last time I had my V02 tested was probably 5 years ago pre-keto. I’m excited to see how different my HR zones are today and if there’s a significant difference or not.

On the positive side of all this, my standard fat vs glucose burn (comes with the RMR testing) is at a whopping 91%.

(Becky Bataller Naughton) #93

Totally right… we NEED to get away from the mindset that more exercise is better. Looking back to how we evolved, we had bursts of activity (chasing pray or running after predators) combined with frequent movement and bursts of strength (making shelter, gathering food, etc). Using this as a model of how we should exercise, the chronic cardio that a lot of us fall into isn’t doing our bodies any favors. Instead, we are constantly jacking up our cortisone levels with chronic exercise at mod-high intensity and this is causing our bodies to eventually burn out. Also causing blood sugars to remain elevated (thus inhibiting fat loss). According to the book “Primal Endurance” by Mark Sisson, the goal is to keep your heart rate NO HGHER than 180 - your age during exercise. Chronic over-exercise not only causes issues with weight but can also lead to cardiovascular troubles (scarring in the venous system, which shouldn’t be exposed to high pressures that can result from excessive exercise). So be careful not to push it too hard for too long.

(Chris) #94

Just make sure that you are using the data appropriately. If you are justifying or attempting to quantify caloric intake/expenditure based on those numbers and find yourself not achieving what you predict, then the data is not valid.

(What The Fast?!) #95

What I know is that I’m burning a lot more than I’m eating and it’s having opposite effect than you’d think.

(Lonnie Hedley) #96

Does the DEXA give measurements for different body parts? Does it show where you lost the lean body mass? Maybe since you’re a HARDCORE biker you lost upper body because you were mostly working your legs? I’ve never had a DEXA although I’d like to, but other things are more important to me at the mo.

(Central Florida Bob ) #97

@KetoLikeaLady, I just want to chime in that I’m also following your story and admire your efforts. I wish I had useful information I could add, but I don’t.

Like many people here post, I lost weight initially, but not only haven’t lost anything in about a year, I’ve gained back about a pound a month over the last six months. A pound a month is hard to see on the scale, but the six isn’t hard to see. Yeah, it might be five and it might be seven, but in January, I saw 210 on my scale, even 208, in the last few weeks I haven’t seen less than 215.

(Edith) #98

I have been keto for a year. I did initially loose 10 pounds but I haven’t lost anything for about nine or 10 months. I even gained a few of those pounds back.

About three weeks ago I ran my first half marathon and the week following, I took a break from exercise. I started dropping weight. I thought maybe that weight drop was a result of the iodine protocol I had started two weeks prior to the half, but once I started exercising again, the weight popped back up.

I think that the reason I haven’t lost weight since my initial loss may be exercise stress. I don’t want to stop exercising but I do want to get off those last 8 pounds. I think I’m going to ease back on the exercise and see what happens.

Maybe you are overtraining and stressing your body. If your cortisol is always up, you are not going to lose weight.

#99

I had to look up what PSMF was. I do not think this is it exactly but depending on how much LBM you have it can be close. It is a 3:1 protein to fat ratio eating 1g per lb of LBM or ideal weight. Since I should be about 130 that would be near 800 calories, for someone like Jimmy it would be many more calories

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ketohacking-md-podcast/id1352848816?mt=2 It starts at number 6

Based on the experiment they did neither Jimmy or the thin fit MD experienced satiety.

Personally I have trouble understanding how I can lose weight on 800 calories if I did not lose it fasting

(What The Fast?!) #100

I think this is my issue as well, but instead of reducing exercise, I’m going to up my calories. I think the big stressor on your body is lots of exercise without enough fuel/nutrition.
@Saphire I looked into PSMF but I think it would be terrible for training.

@hedleylo your questions/comments are always so insightful! I pulled up my DEXA and here’s what I found:

Since starting DSK, I have:
Legs: gained a pound of lean mass, gained 0.8 pounds of fat
Arms: lost 0.4 pounds of lean mass, lost 0.1 pounds of fat
Trunk: lost 1.3 pounds of lean mass, lost 0.4 pounds of fat

What does this tell us? No freaking clue. Well, I can say that yes, I need more protein. For the amount that I’ve been working these areas in reformer pilates (strength training), I should NOT have lost lean mass.

What I’m changing:
I just bumped my protein up to 85g this week. (I started DSK at 75g and got down to around 50g.)
I’m also adding in 2 days a week of weight training - it’s minimal, just doing Strong Lifts 5x5, the 3 basic moves every other day.
I’m increasing calories to 1800ish and will slow increase from there. (I was down to about 1500 in my most recent week of DSK.)
IF I end up gaining, I will do a couple days of fasting with some true feasting around it to try and rev up my metabolism. However, I don’t think I’ll gain - I’m hoping that by increasing calories, I end up taking some stress off my body and it will start to release some weight.

Would love all your thoughts!

#101

I don’t have any thoughts or advice on this, but upping calories almost always seems like a good idea for gals like us (heavy exercise, dieting a lot).
I am pretty sure too much exercise stress is also disallowing me to lose weight on this diet. I have begun to use the Maffetone method as described by Mark Sisson to control my exercise intensity and I think it may be helping some, but not sure yet since i’m still exercising every day.
I would love to stop altogether for a few weeks, just walking and doing yoga, but I don’t think I can or even know if I really want to. I’m CERTAIN it’s the exercise stalling me because that’s the only thing I"ve not tried (like you!) changing in all these years.

(What The Fast?!) #102

I FEEEEEL you. I was looking at the MAF method, but I just got my V02 tested and my aerobic base is very strong, so I’m not sure I need it. I agree - I just looked at all the trends on MyFitnessPal combined with my Polar Flow workouts over the last 7 years and there is a strong correlation between my weight increasing along with my workouts increasing…how can this be!!! However, I took some time off working out over the winter because of injury and didn’t lose any weight, even while keto.

Honestly - it makes me want to do HCG again. It’s been the only thing that’s ever really worked for me. I never gained back right away either.

#103

Oh, man. HCG sounds painful but is not one I’ve ever tried. If you already stopped exercising (forced, but hey it counts!) and you didn’t lose weight, then I see no need to try that again. ESPECIALLY because you love it so.

Does your measured VO2 max supersede the 180-age number? I’ve never had mine tested but I’m pretty sure it’s over 135 (my max heart rate with his method, which is barely more than walking fast for me)