December IF/EF chat - all welcome!

Ivete_C · 2017-12-11 07:58:23 UTC

Im going to join you😊 … Perfect time for a water and black coffee fast … X-Mas madness already started here in England lol

ZoZo · 2017-12-11 08:18:28 UTC

It is great to read this thread. I have had some recent success with 18Hr to 24HR fasts but right now my body is saying I need more regular food. So I am going to eat more regularly until I feel I am right to fast. I have done this in the past and it has worked well. I love not needed food every 15 minutes. I’ll let you know when I am back on the IF train.

Dan_Dan · 2017-12-11 10:32:55 UTC

My understanding of the research

When you are not fat adapted and you do a extended fast you put your body in starvation mode and lose muscle and become and feel weak.

After a extended fast you need to break your fast slowly which can take up to a week depending on your health and you need to restore your strength before attempting another fast which again the length of recovery depends on your health.

When fasting (especially one lasting longer than 72 hours), you have to remember that your body’s digestive functions have slowed down dramatically. When breaking a fast a you make the transition back to eating and active digestive-system function. If weakness develops from fasting you must restore strength before attempting another fast.

If you are fat adapted you always have energy (fuel) available and you do not lose muscle and become or feel week while fasting and Breaking a fast and recovery is shorter.

It is recommended to do IF until you no longer feel hungry or weak and no longer have food cravings between meals. Then you can try short EF of 24 to 48 hours until you no longer feel hungry or weak and no longer have food cravings. Only then should you try longer EF.

I wish luck and much success in your journey to better health through IF/EF Keto WOE

Goal179 · 2017-12-11 13:13:52 UTC

OK, so those of you who have been suffering from “digestive issues” such as diarrhea after ending your fast, here is something to try. Check your multi vitamin. I figured out that my distress was being caused by taking in too much multi vitamin too soon after the end of my fast. My vitamins are keto vitamens meant for keto dieters and they are super strong with no fillers. They have a probiotic, K and Mg as well as every other vitamin you can think of. After the first two days of EF, I typically STOP taking a multi vitamin and only take trace minerals. I have read that the vitamin still needs to be digested with can affect autophagy. But as soon as the fast is over, I start taking the vitamin again - full dose. I believe that it what is causing some of my problems. This time after ending my 14 day EF, I decided to wait another couple of days before adding the vitamin back. This helped tremendously and I did not have the same issue. So if you take a really strong multi vitamin, try to back off of it for a day or so until your system is ready to go. Just a thought. It helped me, maybe can help someone else. =0) Happy Fasting.

OldDoug · 2017-12-11 20:58:06 UTC

Dan, sounds good. After 3 to 5 days fasts I’ve never felt any problems with breaking the fast by starting to eat normally again, no “taking it easy,” though that’s probably the best practice. After a 10 days fast, I did feel sluggish/burdened/weighed down by charging right into eating again, like it was a struggle to have all that food in there right away. Next time I’ll go slower and start out with just broth or soup or something, for a few hours anyway.

With longer fasts, it’s common to lose plasma as a percentage of one’s blood - it’s like the blood becomes more concentrated. This swings the other way once we start eating again, and there are effects on vitamins and minerals-electrolytes, so some degree of caution is a good thing.

Phosphorus (and magnesium, potassium and calcium) are mostly inside our cells (as opposed to sodium - where most of it’s outside the cells); blood levels of them are quite low, and those levels need to be controlled closely. I can certainly see possible problems with blood volume being gained fast upon starting to eat again, this would reduce blood concentration of those elements - especially if eating carbohydrates with the subsequent higher insulin and other hormone response that has the effect of driving more of the ions (P, Mg, K and P) out of the blood and into the cells.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Metabolic and hormonal changes during the refeeding period of prolonged fasting.

M Korbonits, D Blaine, M Elia and J Powell-Tuck, European journal of endocrinology, Aug 2007

The discovery of leptin, a hormone primarily involved in adaptation to fasting, led to an increased interest in appetite regulation and appetite-modulating hormones. Here, we present unique data from a case of extreme starvation and refeeding, showing changes in plasma concentrations of appetite-modulating and metabolic hormones as well as biochemical changes, and draw attention to the dangers of the refeeding syndrome.We studied the refeeding period of a 44-day voluntary fast uncomplicated by underlying disease. Biochemical and hormonal variables were compared with 16 matched subjects such that the BMI range of the controls covered the entire spectrum for the index subject's recovering BMI.Lack of calorie intake with free access to water resulted in 25% loss of body weight. Haemoconcentration was observed and feeding was started with a low sodium, hypocaloric liquid formulation. During early refeeding, marked hypophosphataemia, haemodilution and slight oedema developed. Vitamins B1, B12 and B6 were depleted while serum free fatty acids, ketone bodies and zinc levels were abnormally high; abnormal liver function developed over the first week. The hormonal profile showed low IGF-I and insulin levels, and elevated IGF-binding protein-1 concentrations. Appetite-regulating hormones were either very low (leptin and ghrelin) or showed no marked difference from the control group (peptide YY, agouti-related peptide, alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone, neuropeptide Y and pro-opiomelanocortin). Appetite was low at the beginning of refeeding and a transient increase in orexin and resistin was observed coincidently with an increase in subjective hunger.Our study illustrates the potential dangers of refeeding and provides a comprehensive insight into the endocrinology of prolonged fasting and the refeeding process.

I agree that the longer the fast, then the longer the “refeeding” period should be. From all I’ve read - there are benefits to what your body does in the refeeding period, and they extend beyond the first day. For longer fasts - I’m thinking 7 days or more here, I’d go 2 or 3 or 4 days or more between fasts.

Annapet · 2017-12-12 01:14:31 UTC

Happy Monday! My first OMAD! Water all day at work, and dinner at home. Ending with a BPC.

I hope you are all doing well. Will catch up in a bit.

birddog27 · 2017-12-12 01:23:14 UTC

I started fasting at 1 pm on Sunday, not sure how long I’ll go. I’m thinking at least till Friday…

rustyk61 · 2017-12-12 03:06:17 UTC

How did it feel? You do ok with it? As long as you’ve been going, I’m sure it was easy for you.

peresianketo · 2017-12-12 04:30:03 UTC

So I broke my second fast at 36 hours, this time around my hunger wouldn’t go away no matter what I did. I think I need more time in between.

N1coleS · 2017-12-12 14:22:50 UTC

I’ve been doing OMAD consistently for a few weeks and yes my weight has stalled although I’m pretty sure I am at my goal weight so its not big deal. I think I am going to try for 48 hours. I’m feeling rough. Everyone around me is sick and when I do eat that one meal, I feel really off. I think a bone broth fast will help me fight what ever little bug is trying to take over!

FYI - I have mixed success trying to fast through a cold/flu. Sometimes I can do it, and sometimes it feels impossible.

Annapet · 2017-12-12 17:19:58 UTC

Thanks for the vote of confidence…BUT I felt really sleepy after eating.

Then today, the day following…at 14th I had BPC and I feel the caffeine. Haven’t had this feeling in a long time.

Maybe back to 20:4 soon.

Wishing you all the best!

Goal179 · 2017-12-12 18:57:43 UTC

I typically go about 3 days of refeeding after a 10-14 day fast. I let my body tell me when it’s stable enough to start fasting again. I’m still so fat, that i really don’t need much of a break between fasts. I always allow a minimum of two days refeed before fasting again…even when being aggressive.

I also let my body lead me towards what to eat. The refeed that I started friday was almost 100% vegetables with limited meat. I didn’t plan it that way but the cravings for veggies were so strong that I have to assume that I needed to make up for a deficiency that was occurring some place. I made sure to “up” the fat on all of my veggies in order to help keep me full.

Other refeeds have been all about the meat and still others have been all about the macadamia nuts and guacamole. It is very interesting to learn what your body wants.

Goal179 · 2017-12-12 19:00:59 UTC

Here is another strange thing. Even though my scale weight may go up once I start eating again, I appear much smaller while I am eating then I did while fasting. Is that a thing or just my imagination? I am trying to come up with a scientific reason that may be occurring. I seem bloated while fasting some times.

Primal123 · 2017-12-12 21:26:59 UTC

New to the forums. I am finishing up day 11 of what was supposed to be a 3 day fast. I have lost all of my symptoms of my ai disease and feel like a new person. I don’t want to give up this pain free existence anytime soon so I plan to continue as long as I can in the hopes that I reset my system and destroy the ai disease. If I make it until the 22 I’ll probably break my fast the next morning so that I can have Christmas dinner with my family. Fasting has been a simply amazing experience for me. Pretty sure my family is sick of hearing about it!

OldDoug · 2017-12-12 21:51:16 UTC

Overachiever!

Helewisa · 2017-12-12 21:55:06 UTC

Hi all. fasting successes abound here. Nice to see so many trying it at different levels, finding out what works best and how things change…

I fasted from last Friday evening until Monday evening, finishing a fast of about 70 hours. Back to the 20:4 again today and enjoying the power that fasting seems to give me, or rather, the illusion of power and control!

I’m reading the forums as I can, following the fun, but just cannot make time for lots of responses, sorry for that. I feel like a lurker, but I am so glad we have this space to share. For all of those who don’t fast (that’s everyone else I know!), they “don’t get me”.

Hoping to get in another 72 hour fast…maybe the Zorn fast, but I’m going to let my schedule dictate the time so that I have less stress.

Enjoy your evening!

Primal123 · 2017-12-12 22:59:27 UTC

Haha I don’t do anything half way. It’seems always all or nothing.

OldDoug · 2017-12-12 23:00:26 UTC

Same here. Best I can do is to get some good things mixed in with the bad.

ZoZo · 2017-12-13 07:33:30 UTC

Hey, do you want to try a short feast before the 48 hr. Maybe double you normal eating for OMAD to two meals of about the usual size then try to feast. Might up the metabolism??

ZoZo · 2017-12-13 07:38:08 UTC

I realise now I only posted a day or two ago. My plan worked quickly. After a very filling meal last night I though… maybe I will fast tomorrow. I fasted through til about 430 from 730 last night so 21hr. I did feel it but not so bad to break it during the day. I think this is part of the adaption and getting back to fasting thing. I also think this might help me adapt to burning fat more efficiently.