DEC 2025 IF/EX Fasting

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #1

New month, new thread. Open to all interested in fasting to meet your goals.

Watch out for those holiday goodies, they will be everywhere.

November 2025 IF/EX Fasting chat - all welcome
#2

I still don’t know how to write about fasting without writing about food but it’s relevant I guess. As I still can’t do EF, that is different except the very important Last Meal.

I ate off enough in summer and even in the autumn*, I don’t think this December will be as bad as usual (and I always have lots of stricter December days out of hedonism and self preservation).

*Pretty much all the fruit seasons ended, yay!

Well. Still no clean OMAD but I am working on it! I managed to buy way too much carni food last time I was in a supermarket (it’s a wonderful amount, not even very much but my freezer is tiny) so there is some must-be-eaten-soon stuff at the moment. After it runs out (to the extent that I can leave it to my SO), I will eat simpler and resume tracking. I suspect I need it for OMAD. I just can’t eat an OMAD sized meal without tracking. It’s super easy to eat my tiny energy need (or significantly more) at once but I am used to eating to satiety under normal circumstances and satiation arrives way too early now without planning or eating fattier. So my better and better lean eating tendencies (lean in my world) combined with my very easy situation can’t result in good OMAD days. So I will plan well :slight_smile: After I figure out what I need for satiation nowadays.

I really want some proper (probably still intermittent) fasting already. It’s nice when happens and it has lots of benefits.
I had a tiny lunch today (it is new that I can do that. never had this easy satiation since I have just tried out carnivore and ended up with a few crazy low-cal days. surreal). I had 2 dinners yesterday and extra bites. But I am hopeful I will get better really soon.
Coffee is stubborn but I will do what I can…

Yeah I started to make the stuff I like too much in its very inferior sugary version (and it’s not fatty!!! I barely ever liked non-fatty candies). Apparently it’s only a thing here so it has no English name, whatever. It’s a candy in cute wrapping that goes on (and below) the Christmas tree in big amounts. I really like the citrus jelly version and it’s easy to make except the shape will be off but who cares. And I don’t put it into wrapper. Super easy treat and I will have a ton so I hopefully will avoid all temptation. Mine is better regarding everything, perfect sweetness for me. (Commercial stuff, okay homemade too, tends to be way too sweet for me and that reduces the joy significantly, often rendering the thing inedible though that’s rare, I can always eat just a tiny bit along with a lot of black coffee… But that takes some exceptional stuff if I am in the right state of mind.)

I will make my own desserts, mostly as usual. But now that satiation comes easy (and I still have my creamy coffees), I am quite fine without even a dessertless meal. Wow.

(B Creighton) #3

I am starting December quite encouraged from my November results. Even though I gained a few pounds the last week over Thanksgiving, I believe that mostly to have been glycogen and water weight back in the muscles as my musculature jumped about 4 lbs. My BF and subQ both fell about a percent over Thanksgiving as compared to mid Nov. I am starting at 180.7 lbs today. BF to 24.1% and subQ to 20.9. I didn’t measure subQ on the Renpho during the same time period tho. My Hume says lean mass is up almost 4 lbs but my percentage suffered from my last weigh in. Anyway, whatever I am doing seems to be working this year to lose fat while gaining muscle, so have to get past Christmas now… LOL. That will actually be easier this year than Thanksgiving was…

#4

Great! :slight_smile: :+1:

I love Easter. All traditional and tempting main food is carnivore, I can make my usual desserts and there is no bigger family meal (that’s only for Christmas)! Just us 2. Though even Christmas dinner would be quite low-carb without the desserts… We will see what I will do but as it’s a single meal, I won’t bother more than bringing my own desserts and focusing on my very important protein anyway (if I just eat my protein, it’s virtually inevitably an OMAD sized meal). Christmas (24th I mean, only that is Christmas to me as everything interesting, celebratory meal and gift giving happens on that day) is OMAD, I do that since ages as only that makes sense to me (we have a family Christmas dinner, after all and I used to visit other relatives in the afternoon. like my SO’s dad’s second wife’s family. we don’t have many relatives and we had a good relationship with them. well good enough for a Christmas visit). And I used to go carnivore on the 25th… It’s a good time for it. Once I did some super strict, unnecessarily ascetic version with no dairy… I think I lasted 2 days, very impressive from me, I don’t think I will try again.

I so don’t have the mood for Christmas baking (one of my gifts is edible)… Rock painting sounds nicer, I will start that soon. It will be a horse year. It will be my 3rd Chinese Zodiac rock, it will be fun to make all the animals. I try to make this one fiery, it will be Year of the Fire Horse, after all and red is an important celebratory color in China anyway.

Weather is gloomy, sometimes foggy and cold, no wonder my mood and energy isn’t so great. I really miss sunshine. I still need to go outside but the weather isn’t very encouraging.

I should try to go on a slightly longer fast somewhere in December even if it sounds a bit difficult considering my track record… Maybe I will try AGAIN to wait until I get hungry. It’s very very hard to do, I almost always eat before it happens. Need to focus on something else than food.

(Bob M) #5

Trying my first 4.5 day fast in years.

Day 1: Started at BS (blood sugar) of 117 and ketones 0.1; ate some carbs late the night before. In the evening: BS of 81, ketones 0.7. That high of a BS occurs for me if I eat late, and oddly can be somewhat independent of carbs. Had two packets of LMNT. Got colder at night, had to put on – gasp! (since I never have to do this) – socks and a warmer T-shirt with sleeves. A good sleep, not much nocturia at all after the first hour or so. I’ve been changing things up because something is causing too much nocturia, and I can’t figure out what it is. Avoiding water before bed doesn’t seem to change anything.

Day 2: Started at BS of 90 and ketones of 0.5. A bit concerning, as I’d like to see ketones higher. 2nd day is not too bad so far. Hitting my second LMNT now (2pm/1400). We’ll see what happens.

(Bob M) #6

Day 2, evening: BS = 73, ketones = 2.1
Day 3, morning: BS = 85, ketones = 1.3

Had a harder time getting to sleep on Day 2. Had nocturia initially (maybe from drinking water within the hour before bed, but this isn’t always the case with nocturia, which makes it so hard to analyze), then settled down. Might take some magnesium, because it seemed like I had some leg kicks initially. Settled down and slept well, no nocturia for hours, not much waking up either.

Two times with LMNT does seem to help calm hunger, as I wasn’t really hungry on day 2. I remember that day 2 was normally the hardest day. We’ll see.

I kept warmer at work, with a long sleeve T-shirt, and a normal (dress) shirt, and a sweater. At night, longer and thicker T-shirt, thicker long PJ pants, socks. Was actually warm initially, but then slept well.

It was 5F outside yesterday, so I planned to be warmer.

(Hugh Walter Jennings) #7

26 hrs into water/tea fast.

1.8 lbs loss
Body fat down .5%
Subcutaneous fat down.4%
Metabolic age 63, down from 64 (I’m 67 and 10 months)
Blood glucose 82
Blood ketones 1.2
GKI 3.8

Didn’t hit the treadmill yesterday to get my 10,000 steps daily goal but got 6500 doing house cleaning and rearranging activity.

Not happy with my fasting blood glucose. Previous fasts have got it in the low 70’s ~ the 24 hour mark. It was 77 before I went to bed last night. But again, I didn’t get at least 10,000 steps as I did with the first fasts.

I’ll hit the treadmill here in a couple of hours and keep fasting until my blood glucose gets down to around 71 or so.

(Bob M) #8

When I was wearing my CGM (continuous glucose monitor), things like working on the house and going up and down stairs caused higher blood sugar. That could be what’s happening to you.

I only noted this after using the CGM for months: times I did things (including exercise in the morning) caused my blood sugar to be higher than on the days I didn’t do anything.

This is basically impossible to tell without a CGM, though. I’m taking two points a day (which have errors in them), so it’s only a gross measure of what’s going on. Would LOVE to have both a CGM and a CKM (continuous ketone meter) for a few months.

(KM) #9

I usually conflate this with a shift into ketosis releasing stored water / glycogen. Is it possible your pre fast diet wasn’t hitting keto?

(Hugh Walter Jennings) #10

Had to end my fast at the 37 hour mark. Blood glucose was 59. Hypoglycemia territory. No physical symptoms of it though.

Ended the fast with a cup of cauliflower, tablespoon of milled flaxseed, a tablespoon of avocado oil, a good dash of roasted garlic powder, two tablespoons of peanut butter, and a spoonful of non-pasteurized sauerkraut. Coming up on the two hour mark since the meal. Curious to see what my blood glucose is then.

(Central Florida Bob ) #11

There’s a story I remember from Dr. Phinney, I think, about early tests of keto. I’m hoping someone else chimes in, but the meat of the story was the subjects were riding stationary bikes to test speed and endurance, so they were getting continuous blood glucose testing. The lab techs were freaking out because their blood sugar dropped insanely, into the 20s IIRC, but they had absolutely no symptoms of anything being wrong. They were running on ketones, not sugar.

It’s the kind of story that sticks with me.

(Central Florida Bob ) #12

I originally came here for a “me, me, me” question, so let me put it here.

Here’s the setup: I’ve been having an issue over the last few months with my electrolyte balance. It wakes me up in the early morning with insane leg cramps. Mostly the right leg, but sometimes both. The tie-in here is that it’s mostly on fasting days, and I’ve even dropped to OMAD, so it’s more like a 24 hour fast instead of the 40-ish hours on regular fasting days.

The question is that the majority of things you can read online is that those are usually electrolyte balance, but how do I figure out what electrolytes I need? I mean, the majority say magnesium, but over the last few months I’ve doubled my magnesium intake to try to reduce my chronic Afib. I’m concerned about whether I take too much Mg and I’m “out of balance” with potassium and sodium.

I didn’t increase those two when I increased the Mg. Should I just double them, too? The temptation is to get some sort of lab work, but if the levels change when I wake up in pain - in reaction to the pain - then the lab work means nothing. Any other ideas?

FWIW, I rarely ever feel like I want my food salted, and since I tend to eat closer to ketovore and get very little “wretched green stuff”, I take some NoSalt (potassium chloride) and Redmond Real Salt, usually 1/4 tsp of each in a glass of water.

(KM) #13

I think I’d try overdosing on sodium chloride and see if it works. Assuming you get a good result, reduce it til it’s no longer effective? I don’t think you could easily overdose on salt, whereas potassium could be problematic and magnesium would give you disaster pants; salt would seem like the safest mineral to boost. Not saying this will work, but if it doesn’t at least you can rule out a lack of NaCl. (How do you feel about pickle juice? I think the secret there is that the vinegar counteracts the saltiness so that it’s not perceived as unbearably salty.)

(Central Florida Bob ) #14

Yeah, that’s the way I’ve been leaning. Then I started thinking about my experiments with the number of detections my watch considers Afib, and for the data I have I’m not sure that it’s really doing anything for me. When I got the watch, I did 1 week on my old dose of Mg before switching to the new (twice as much Mg) followed by three months on the new Mg dose (I’m currently taking). The results look a bit better, in terms of weekly averages and lower overall peaks, but I’m not confident the Mg was what mattered. Little things seem to matter, like the detections go up if I sleep longer. I think that’s just how the system works.

That led me to start thinking about just going back to my old Mg dosage, or to a lower amount. TBH, I’d just as soon not take any supplements.

Pickle juice is something I never tried to get into my life. In fact, I just threw away two pickle spears and easily a pint of pickle juice last night. The jar said the pickles expired months ago. Not that I have a real aversion to pickles.

(KM) #15

I don’t subscribe to any magical qualities of pickle juice, it’s just a good way to get a lot of sodium if salty food doesn’t really appeal to you, as the vinegar cuts the salty taste (adding vinegar is also a cooking trick if you accidentally over-salt anything .) If you don’t mind salting your food or plain old salty water, I doubt it would make a difference.

#16

No expert here I was getting cramps for months like yourself at nigh in bed. I am on Ketogenic diet eat loads of meat and loaded up with sea salt no more cramps. good luck

(Bob M) #17

I thought that too, but:

image

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2010/05000/Reflex_Inhibition_of_Electrically_Induced_Muscle.15.aspx

That is, pickle juice stopped cramps almost immediately, which means it’s likely not an electrolyte issue. I have experienced this myself, where I had a leg cramp at night,came down to the fridge and drank pickle juice, and the cramp immediately stopped.

One problem with this is that there are probably different reasons for cramps. For instance, I theorize that higher levels of magnesium might actually cause or exacerbate cramps. I say this because sometimes when I take magnesium a lot, I get cramps, which is the opposite of what most believe. I also theorize that working the body out in different ways can cause them, e.g., starting to jog when you haven’t been jogging in a while, suddenly doing a ton of work on the house where you’re going up and down stairs a ton.

I theorize there’s some balance in electrolytes, and if you throw that off, you’re more likely to get cramps. I have no idea how to test that, though.

But I have found that increasing my salt intake (mainly through LMNT) helps.

But I get leg cramps too infrequently to determine what the cause and solution are.

(Bob M) #18

Day 3 morning: BS = 85, ketones = 1.3
Day 3 evening: BS = 72, ketones = 3.0
Day 4 morning: BS = 69, ketones = 3.0
Day 4, evening: BS = 56, ketones = 5.3 (lowest blood sugar, highest ketones I’ve ever seen)
Day 5, morning: BS = 66, ketones = 3.8

I have a left bundle branch block, which means there’s an error in my heart function so that the right side of the heart and the left side aren’t “linked” as well as they could be. I’m on Jardiance, which lowers blood sugar (you pee it out) and also – some believe – causes ketones to be used more by the heart and possibly higher ketones. I did not really see the latter until now. The last time I did a 4.5 day fast, the highest ketones I got was over 2 after 4.5 days. Don’t think the evening ketones were that high, either. So age and/or Jardiance seems to be causing higher ketones and lower blood sugar for this fast.

The last two nights, I had to get up initially for nocturia, but then did not have to that much. I did have a harder time getting to sleep (note: I normally go to sleep in minutes, so “harder” means like 5-10 minutes), and then I woke up at around 2-3 am and it took me a little while to get back to sleep. I also woke up later than normal.

Still used two LMNT packets in the day. That did seem to help. (Note: I think you could probably easily recreate these with salt, no salt, and some source of magnesium, but my wife bought a lot of these, so I’m using them.)

I learned that my glucose monitor has a light that changes color. It turns from green to red under 70. And my app warned me that the last 3 readings were under 70.

Will (attempt to) ease into eating today. Liquid, egg, smaller amount of food… We’ll see what happens.

(Central Florida Bob ) #19

At first, I was surprised they compared pickle juice to deionized water, since that’s not conductive while salt water is. If you’re trying to distinguish pickle juice from “plain old saltwater”, deionized water is the opposite of that. The lead in (first paragraph) implies all they wanted to show was that pickle juice did something, so maybe comparing it to something they’re sure couldn’t have an effect was the way to go.

I had the worst night of cramps I can recall - in terms of frequency and spread across both legs. I was up roughly three times, roughly every three hours after going to bed. The final time I put a full teaspoon of NaCl and half tsp of KCl into a 12 oz glass of water. It was close to 7AM and I didn’t sleep well after that, but I didn’t get cramps, either.

For the last 10 days, I’ve been on antibiotics for a UTI, and it’s possible that affects things other than just killing off the bacteria. Took my last one last night, so experiments (AKA spearmints) will continue.

(Bob M) #20

Yeah, drugs will affect things. It’s hard to know. Did you go to the bathroom more with the antibiotics?

Yeah, that’s a weird, but interesting study.