Conflicting Advice! Who do I listen to?!

(Kelly Whitfield Bradley) #1

Hey everyone! I’m about 4 weeks into keto, prescribed to me by my RE. Although I started this on the hopes of getting pregnant, I’m seeing the whole body benefits of less pain, better mood and mental health, more energy, and some fat loss. I’m down about 15lbs in one month but haven’t weighed in a few days because I’ve been gaining (likely) water weight since I’m due to start my period soon.

HERES MY ISSUE:

  1. I feel better when doing a 16:8 or 18:6 eating pattern, but some days I don’t want to eat a lot in my 8 or 6. Yet I hear about how we are supposed to eat our BMR or TDEE macros in that time. I’m just not hungry. So sometimes I get in about 1000 calories a day and that’s about 700-800 below what I need. I will add that I’m trying to regulate my insulin–not fasting for weight loss. So I may add a little coconut oil to my coffee each morning at 7:00 but that’s all I eat until 4:00pm. So yes that’s not a true fast but I’m completely satisfied from 20g of fat that doesn’t raise my raise my insulin so I’m rocking with it for now until I can wean off that. So my question is: should we focus on eating when/if we are hungry or should we focus on getting some quantity of protein and fat in during the eating period? I’m concerned about not getting enough nutrients but I do also want my body to eat some of my body fat. Basically…help!!!

2.) ive heard conflicting info on how much protein a woman needs. So far my macros are set to 20c/65p/120f but I don’t eat that much fat. It usually hits around 90 and the protein fluctuates between 55 and 75 according to my eating pattern. Others say women need more equal grams of fat and protein. Which is correct? I work out about twice a week. Other than that I’m active at work but not athletic by any means. No strength training aside from lifting bales of hay and moving furniture at work. So HOW and WHY are women’s macros calculated? Why would they be different?

  1. how can I get the benefits of bone broth if I don’t eat red meat? I have a lot of endometriosis inflammatory pain from red meat so I haven’t eaten it in a decade. This is yet another reason why I went towards keto–I’ve not had a pain flare since switching since I’ve fully cut out wheat (my number one inflammatory trigger.) I was eating paleo for a long time before this so it’s been an easy switch.

Thanks in advance! :slight_smile:

#2

Hi and welcome. Glad you are seeing great benefits from keto. You will love it here.

Some thoughts…

Have you listened to these two podcasts> I think you would find them useful…

http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=58

http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=61

Personally, I think falling in to a repetitive pattern of underconsumption is not a great idea. It is a tendency I have when I eat OMAD. I have a gastric sleeve and my restriction really ramps up when I eat OMAD so I can’t eat much when I do eat. I start to get dizzy on and off and just don’t feel great. I recently started pretty well forcing myself to have breakfast but within days really looked forward to it and was hungry when I got up. I feel much better for it and funnily enough my weight started creeping down again! I am not looking for weightless as I am near target weight but am not complaining if I drop a few more kilos either! I do think that switching it up is a good thing for your body which just loves you to do the same thing really so that it can readjust and settle down into that pattern thanks! That is why I recommended the above pods - I think you will like them.

Protein - oh yeah, you will see much conflict around that. I think macros are really misleading as a % because you will be using calories which are just bullshit!!! It is far easier to go with grams…

<20g carbs - most people go with net but total is great.
1-1.5g protein per kg LBM - this seems to be good for most people. You may find you need to be at the top end if you work out a lot but any history of T2 and IR will mean it will be a good idea to stay within if not towards the lower end. Only way to tell is to play around with it and see how you feel.
Fat to satiety

It is tricky if you re not hungry and there is the whole body fat thing BUT consistently eating low will not do you any favours IMO.

Bone broth - would the bones from say beef impact you the same as meat? I have no idea on that score. You can make broth (or I just make stock) with any bones and meat you like though. TBH, I am not a fan of broth as a straight drink but I love having stock to use in cooking.

I have also noticed amazing things after not eating wheat especially. I am glad you are feeling so much better. Onwards and upwards!

There will always be conflicting advice because ether are so many ways to do things and everyone is different. What works perfectly for me may not for you so gather it all up, all that conflicting stuff, and play around with different approaches to find what works for you. Tailor make your own plan.

(Susan Abbott) #3

What is OMAD?

#4

One Meal A Day

(Brad) #5

I would start by saying everyone is different so what works for me may not work for you.

  1. Eat when you are hungry. The WOE should help with insulin response as fat has virtually no impact. Add butter and oil to things to up the fat/protein ratio.

  2. Protein should be around 1.1-1.5 times your lean mass, most women calculate out to around 65-90g. This is recommended only because large amounts of excess protein can turn into sugar.
    http://www.calculator.net/lean-body-mass-calculator.html?ctype=metric&cage=25&csex=m&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=10&cpound=160&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60

  3. You can use chicken bone broth, I have not heard of red meat causing inflammation, but do what works for you. Also Check ingredients, soy can be highly inflammatory as well

(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #6

Another option could be to try ADF or Alternate Day Fasting. This is a method where you fast one day and feast the next. This gives you all of the benefits of fasting for about 36 hours, if you eat breakfast, and then the opportunity to eat a full day’s worth of delicious foods to satiety!

Many studies have shown that people doing ADF do not overeat on their feasting days and reap many of the benefits of longer term fasts!

(Kelly Whitfield Bradley) #7

The pain and swelling from endo can be triggered by a lot of keto foods–which ks why I was freaking out when my RE put me on it. So far the only things I’ve not eaten are beef and pork (beef for the inflammation and pork for moral reasons.) some women with endo have flares from eggs, some from cheese. It’s a weird disease that takes a crap ton of management via diet and surgery to keep suppressed or in a remission-type state.

(Kelly Whitfield Bradley) #8

I have listened to those! I think I’ve listened to every keto podcast out there, which has confused me even more!

I should add that I do eat more regular meals on the weekends since I’m home with my wife and we enjoy food. I’ve also packed snacks to take to work–an avocado, a boiled egg, 25-40g almonds. I just don’t end up eating them until around 3:00 at the earliest. Maybe an alternating schedule would be better–I’ve seen some folks do a 4 day OMAD and 3 day 2-3MAD schedule. As I get more active in the spring and summer I want to make sure I’m using my body fat stores but getting satiety with food. I tried eating breakfast each day last week --2 boiled eggs and some avocado–and I just ate SO MUCH MORE during the day. And by the time dinner came around I was starving and couldn’t be satisfied. I’m struggling to find the balance.

(eat more) #9

  1. what was your eating like prior to keto? have you always done IF?
    1000/day is super low BUT…with the podcasts linked i believe that we should be looking at cumulative intake versus daily…so if you make up for it on the weekends it might be ok. Like just a different version of feast/fast. (of course i want to say “eat more”…look at my signature :joy:)
    I would get more in my eating window and switch up eating windows but that’s my n=1 :slight_smile:
    i also think i do better with the ADF and EF over consistent IF.
    I don’t think you have to wean off of the fat during fasting if it isn’t raising your insulin. most ppl that i’ve read about their fasting experiences do take in some form of fat in smaller quantities while fasting regardless of the duration.

  2. i actually haven’t heard that women’s macros need to be different or that fat and protein should be equal. (i haven’t heard everything LOL)
    women’s protein and overall intake is just generally lower because we are usually smaller and have less LBM…which could result in lower protein and fat…and could make them look more “equal” if someone has low LBM and high bf%**
    EDIT2: ** if the calculator reduces fat intake based on bf%
    obviously not always the case and everyone is different regardless of gender.

carb 20g
protein .8-1g per pound of LBM
fat “the rest”

in the beginning my protein was always higher than my fat and then after a few months it flip flopped.
your body actually sorts it all out over time…as long as you’re not slowing your BMR with too low of an intake. (hint hint LOL)
don’t sell yourself short…moving bales of hay is HARD! LOL I say you’re an athlete :smiley:

  1. chicken bone broth (which is really good with heavy whipping cream or coconut cream…i haven’t tried it with butter but i’ve seen others say it is amazing)
    I would test the red meat by itself once you’re comfortable with this WOE…it could be ok with the absence of inflammatory carbs?

it’s so easy to overthink new things…i know i have more than one “what’s going on?!” post in the first few months of keto and then fasting :joy: :joy: :joy:
EDIT: the first person you listen to is yourself…hippy dippy BUT…you actually know what feels/sounds right…just have to get the thinking part to gather all of the information and agree lol

you got this :blush:

(eat more) #10

me again :slight_smile:
@Fiorella said it perfectly! I know weight loss isn’t your main goal but the sentiment still applies :slight_smile:

(jketoscribe) #11

  1. Talk to your RE about the fasting/eating question. This is really important to discuss with him/her because hypocaloric intake has effects on thyroid and reproductive hormones. So check in with the RE for recommendations to make sure you aren’t shooting yourself in the foot. It may be perfectly fine, but I think this is a very worthy discussion with a knowledgeable physician (lucky you for finding a good one!). Fertility is it’s own unique little niche and while many of us have personal experience one way or the other with fasting and caloric intake, the situation is different when you are specifically trying to conceive.

  2. I was listening to an interesting podcast interview of Amy Berger yesterday and she was addressing the issue of protein and gluconeogenesis. She pointed out that the bump in blood sugar when you eat a high protein meal CANNOT be gluconeogenesis because the process of gluconeogenesis takes some time to occur. It is more likely glycogen being released from the liver. Her point is that you don’t need to fear protein and it’s OK to eat a little more protein and a little less fat. Especially since your aim is to grow another human being, this makes sense. http://breaknutrition.com/episode-9-amy-bergers-new-book-alzheimers-antidote-gluconeogenesis-exogenous-ketones/

  3. As for bone broth, I prefer chicken bone broth. You get the good collagen and other benefits, but no red meat. If you end up having issues with chicken bone broth as well, consider that you may have a histamine intolerance.

Fast/Feast cycling