Guidelines wanted

#41

Can you describe what part of the day you get the BG and ketone readings? Morning waking up, or after eating, how many hours after eating, did you exercise like taking a long walk/bike ride, after taking meds,…etc? Lots of factors will influence the readings. Also, when you are in transition from glucose burner to fat burner, you dump a lot of glycogen inventory. So, slight ups and downs with glucose happen…but this is short lived. Later on, some people start seeing their BG creep up, because they succeeded lowering their insulinogenic responses. So, not to get too panicked about the numbers. Gotta look at the overall picture (how you feel, how you sleep, your skin, the fitting of your clothes, etc).

(edward rosenthal) #42

this was last night, prior to bedtime. i didn’t have carbs at dinner ( i had made the asian dish ( https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/asian-cabbage-stir-fry) [https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/asian-cabbage-stir-fry] ( substituted a meatless ground beef thing) . i had done a short dog walk around the block earlier in the day. but aside from the readings ( not panicking, sort of trying to figure out the complicated science of insulin - thinking i will try to read the obese code maybe?). perhaps i need to do more than light exercise to get the full benefits. but from my history i usually don’t have the will to consistency… one of my main character flaws…

#43

Oh yes there is definitely carbs in the cabbage stir fry. Cabbage has carbs in it. Also, you would need to look at the ingredients of the faux meat used (lentils, tofu, beans, etc…as well as other binders and compounds). Carbs do add up and usually sneak up on us if we are not meticulously measuring them

In the beginning, I kept a food log. Thus helped me learn to carb count. I don’t do it anymore, but I recommend it to new people in order to learn how to recognize amount of carbs in food…and how easily they add up.

(edward rosenthal) #44

yeah, looking at the sliced cabbage from trader joe’s, i see i probably had half the package - which is about 8gr. carbs then. the meatless stuff - well i think the label was thrown out - but i guess it was soy based so pretty much zero then(?). then i had 3 brazil nuts, and some tea with more coconut mix in it. but overall i try not to get too much involved in counting, my pea brain can’t seem to handle that.

#45

Nope…don’t assume the faux meat was zero carb. You really need to read the labels. And best to keep a daily log of your food…to see how well you maintain the 20 gram target. Believe me…carbs a sneaky little critters. They sneak into your food and add up real quick! :grinning:

(Jacquie) #46

Agree with @Fiorella’s suggestion of a food log. Those details can give you some insight into what’s happening with your BG and your body’s reaction to certain foods. One thing I found with cabbage is that if it caramelizes when you cook it, it creates a sweetness that may raise your BG.

#47

My fitness pal will also scan the labels for you. At the end of the day, scroll down to the end of the diary and select “Nutrition” and it will give you the rundown on your macros for the day. Don’t forget that net carbs is total carbs minus fiber, but my fitness pal will give you the total carbs. When I started out, I just logged everything and worked on getting things where they needed to be. Sounds like you’re doing great! A little food logging will give you the confidence that you’re doing things right.

Is there no way you can bring animal products into the house for your own meals? I take it that you can’t have eggs or cheese either? It would make your meals much yummier with the good stuff.

(edward rosenthal) #48

well i haven’t worked up the courage to really ask about animal products. we keep finding vegan products to sub in those recipes i am finding. and i go out a lot so its not a big deal. but yeah, i could do with some baking and cooking with the other stuff.
I had a fasting day a couple of days ago - just coffee, and later some vegetable broth, and then some tea. it wasn’t hard, but the next day i had actually gained a pound on the scale. weird. so i just got the obese code ( summary) and will try to find out what might be the cause. also i re did the ketone blood reading and its down from 3.3 to 3.2.

#49

Yeah. With the fasting thing…it is possible to gain a pound…it can happen with water retention…but just for a day or even shorter term issue. If you do IF or extended fasting, and see that you are not losing weight at all, then you have to examine what you are doing during you feast days. If you are not eating enough, or if you are missing important nutrients, your body will hang on to food as fat (because it thinks you are starving…i.e. your body thinks you are having trouble finding food). So, don’t restrict calories during your eating windows, and make sure you get full nutrition spectrum.

Conflicting Advice! Who do I listen to?!
(edward rosenthal) #50

i haven’t really figured out the caloric intake for my goals ( get to 170lbs. ). After i got my refund for myfitnesspal app i got a different app - Losit - and i really like that one. Each day i am trying to measure stuff and i can see i am meeting the macro percentage pretty well, but since i don’t eat breakfast ( just coffee with my coconut stuff) i don’t make it to the 1800 cal. mark, its usually 200-400 under that. Not sure if i should try to adjust the calorie thing. I watched a whole bunch of Jason Fung u-tube videos and it seems as if calories don’t really count.(?).
And wondering if i can do the alternate day fast for a few weeks and get the sugars down, to speed up weight loss and really get into higher gear(?).
I ordered quickcarb from amazon and looking forward to finding a good recipe for a low carb breakfast -
thanks again for giving me suggestions and advice!
addendum: i checked a calculator at https://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm
and it seems i am about right. but that calc. doesn’t seem to take in the keto variables?
ed

(eat more) #51

you can pretty much ignore calories but you DO need to eat enough to keep your metabolism happy.
there are quite a few threads regarding CICO (calories in/calories out)
i was going to link them but there are too many good ones…just do a forum search for CICO :slight_smile:

i don’t think fasting is a recommended until you are fully fat-adapted.
I’d get keto really dialed in before attempting it.

how does the keto diet buddy calculator numbers compare to freedieting output?
since keto is about hormones and not calories it really helps to use a keto specific calculator.

glad you were able to get a refund on myfitnesspal :blush:

(edward rosenthal) #52

how do i know i am keto adatped? is it a question of a length of time between ketone readings and seeing the results? or is it a feeling?
e

(eat more) #53

i’m going to say it’s more of a feeling. hopefully others will chime in :slight_smile:
the presence of ketones doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ve switched from food that you eat/glucose to fat stores on your body for fuel.
i’ve read and experienced all kinds of “personal” indicators…increased energy, longer intervals between eating without hunger, increased body temperature, improved mental function, etc
everyone is different and it takes different lengths of time for each person since we all have varying levels of healing/correction to do internally.
i think it is really hard to say “yes! you are fat adapted because XYZ”

i know for me it took me longer to fat adapt because of internal corrections from too low of intake for years AND while “doing” keto. it’s hard to retrain the brain that more food /calories doesn’t mean more fat on your body

(edward rosenthal) #54

i am kinda hoping one of my beagles will sniff me and tell me i am now keto adapted.

(edward rosenthal) #55

its me again. i made some fat bombs out of coconut oil and cocoa. they are very tasty, and maybe i ate one too many today. i just looked at my ketone level and it was 4.5, up from a couple of days ago when it was 2.7.
i mostly fasted today - just coffee in the am, and then tofu and spinach for dinner about three hours ago. i think i probably spent 3 days this week with just breakfast and a dinner. i ordered carbquick but not sure i want to use it, unless somebody can tell me a good recipe that won’t cost more than a few carbs.
ed

#56

Have you tried hemp seeds? they are a great complete protein.

I’m a semi-vegetarian ketoer. Sometimes I’ll go a week without animals products at all also. Doing vegan keto it’s hard to be strict about 20g carbs a day and still get adequate complete essential proteins to preserve LBM. Many vegan ketoers seem to use net carbs and have a slightly higher carb target. Say 30-50g per day. As long as you’re monitoring your blood you can afford to experiment of course.

Having diverse protein sources is important for vegan keto.

I also get protein from spirulina, nut butter mixes, and chia seeds. I use a pea protein powder too.

The hidden carbs that sneak in are from some protein powders (look at the label), binging on nuts (nut butters), and soy products (flavours and sugar added). Tempeh is usually better than tofu for carbs (and probably also for health). You have to read the labels (I carry a magnifying glass for this as often the writing is so small it cannot be read by my eyes).

Fascinating to hear about your progress.

(Candra ) #57

Wow! Just had an ah ha moment! I forgot that of course you would not be all LBM … thanks for the reminder! I will up my goal by a smidge … yay!

(edward rosenthal) #58

I have high blood sugars - today it was 248 before coffee! I must be doing something to cause it - but yesterday i had only coffee ( plus my coconut milk + coconut oil mixture) for breakfast, a 6oz steak and broccoli for lunch ( applebees), and i made a grilled cheese sandwich ( cauliflower plus diaya cheese) for dinner.
There are perhaps too many conflicting studies to look at to figure this one out. The best blood sugar i have had so far is around 120, but the last few days it climbed and climbed to this point. I also did a ketone check and it was a low 1.2. Well i was actually happy to see it was low, that was better than both being high yes? I am not sure if i should fast it out to get the Blood Sugar low or not, because if gluconeogenesis is causing the highs, won’t fasting tell my body to create more glucose ? I need a computer strapped to my liver.

#59

@edward, how many grams total carbs have you been eating the past few days that your blood sugar went up?

Also, something you may want to read up on is the “dawn phenomenon” effect. It’s when insulin levels drop, as for example overnight while sleeping/fasting, and then you wake up next morning with elevated sugars. Dr Jason Fung has a good write-up on this:

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

(edward rosenthal) #60

Hi there, well i try not to obsess over the carb counting, but pretty sure its been low. I made keto pancakes and had vermont syrup with it - but not extravagantly using it. I do read the labels and judge what is a goodly amount and try to subscribe to less than that…
I guess i will have to be more obsessive and count more? arghhh. i will next read the dawn phenomenon article. I do know about it and see it all the time, but it never reached this level before.