Carnivore tactical retreat

(mole person) #8

It’s very odd that your butcher won’t sell you beef fat. All of the butcher’s in my area will, and one even gives me huge bags of it for free. Same with pork fat. Do you have any other options? Butchers at larger grocery stores can be asked as well.

(Chris) #9

Like most who fall off, you didn’t give yourself enough time to adapt. It’s pretty common. You have to commit long-term if want all the benefits you can gain from it. A small amount of weight gain is normal (especially if you’re eating dairy).

Not trying to take you down a peg, but for others who might see this thread and get discouraged. It’s about the long-haul, not about the drop in the bucket.

(Ethan) #10

I actually suspect cheese and dairy is what was killing my satiety signaling more…

(charlie3) #11

I’m not giving up, just cutting my losses and looking for a better plan.

I made a few mistakes starting ZC. I was ramping up and ready to start when I got laid off from work (which I don’t mind because I should be retired). But that meant I wasn’t rushing out the door to work in the morning. Eating early without the salad for backstop was a bad combination. I’d been doing 30 net carbs for most of a year so the intense carb craving caught me off guard. Then all the experienced ZC folks are saying the thing I need to do is accept getting fat. I may never be able to accept that.

You mention all the benefits, which begs the question. I’m a bit foggy about what those are besides the ones I’ve mentioned above. The keto establishement has research and mechanisms to talk about. So far as I can find the ZC world does not. I’ll say it again, I really like sticking to the carnivore food list. On keto I decide when to bulk or cut. I need the same with carnivore.

(Karim Wassef) #12

Satiety comes from fat.

In carnivore, it’s easy to indulge in protein and miss the ratio. If you go heavy on protein, you get hungry again.

You only need 0.7g/lb of lean mass… the rest should be fat.

Personally, I go for egg yolk… I’ll pasteurize it in a sous vide and eat it raw for my fat intake boost. Not for everyone but that’s how I did it.

I’d also blend it with heavy cream … fat on fat… make it into a savory whipped sauce with bone broth base and have it next to my steak… fat on fat on fat on fat…

then there’s mayo … I’m not a purist, I consider extra virgin olive oil to be an animal product when you add it to eggs to make mayo :smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13
(Karim Wassef) #14

that’s awesome but they still use 1/2 avocado oil… :smiley:

(Ethan) #15

What temperature do you use and how long?

(Ethan) #16

Think this would work with tallow?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

I don’t know. If you don’t mind wasting an egg or two, give it a shot. I imagine you would at least want the tallow warm enough to be soft, if not actually liquid. At room temperature, tallow is fairly hard, whereas bacon grease is soft, almost semi-liquid.

I was going to suggest avocado oil, but then I remembered that you’re not only kosher, but also carnivore, sorry!

(Karim Wassef) #18

135F for 1 hr

(charlie3) #19

I walked in to a second butcher shop and tried to buy beef tallow and was refused. There was the same mumbling about government regulations. The butcher said the left over tallow is used in their ground beef. So I asked if i could buy the meat plus tallow without the grinding and was again refused.

Now I’ve had a few days eating salad again. Staying at break even calories is effortless. A test will come on Saturday if I decide to try eating nothing that day, which was my custom for the previous year of keto.

My take on all this is not that ZC leaves me craving carbs so much as animal foods only is not filling enough. Just knowing that later in the day I’ll be eating a large amount of vegetables is enough to moderate hunger.

(Chris) #20

Try suet instead, you can render (or not) it yourself into tallow. If he refuses, next is to find a farmer. I recently bought 20 pounds from a guy 30 minutes from my house, from a freshly slaughtered heifer. I’m not sure where you live so I really don’t know if that advice is any good in your situation or not.

(Karim Wassef) #21

Satiation from animals requires that you select those foods that provide sufficient fat.

Are you using ghee? Are you eating enough egg yolk (duck eggs especially high)? Are you eating fatty cuts of meat (ribeye)? Are you eating fatty fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel)? Are you eating fatty sausage? Are you eating fatty ground beef (ask your butcher for 50% fat)? Are you eating fatty livers (foie gras, patee, liverwurst, cod liver)? Are you eating fish roe (caviar)? Are you eating heavy cream and high fat cheeses? Are you eating fatty pork cuts (pork belly, bacon)?

I found a great little German butchery that specialize in traditional white sausage which is mostly fat… in fact, some cultures are REALLY good at improvising the inclusion of fat into their meats and German is probably my favorite… the Nordics do a good job of this too.

If you feel the need to augment with some fatty veggies like avocado, macadamia, extra virgin olive oil, EVOO mayo… that’s a personal choice and every body is different. I will say that the modern food environment has been so averse to fat, and especially animal fat, that traditional fatty animals meats take a little more effort these days. It doesn’t change their intrinsic health benefits and substantial impact on metabolic balance.

(charlie3) #22

My impression is rendering is simply melting down the fat with heat then letting it harden again. Is there important changes that happen to the fat by doing this? My plan was to either add the fat to beef I grind at home or put it in the fry pan instead of some other fat.

I’m learning to fry ground chuck very lean. More of the juices stay in the meat and it tastes better. Eating raw meat is intriguing but I’m not ready for that for some reason. In the mean time if I buy chuck already ground it’s leaner than I want. I’m going to own a capable meat grinder but not until I’ve got reliable sources for the products to use with it and may be including more knowledge.

(Karim Wassef) #23
(Karim Wassef) #24
(charlie3) #25

$3.50 per pound for ground chuck. $4.50 per pound for the fat?

(Karim Wassef) #26

Fat is valuable! It’s protective and reduces disease.

Not saying this is the only option, but it’s convenient.

(Chris) #27

The suet I picked up this week was $2.25/lb but I know the source (as it’s local) and there’s no shipping fee.

Also read the 1 star reviews on Amazon for those products, not much quality control. Obviously reviews can be faked or paid, so a grain of salt is needed.