Carnivore Rocktober - ZC Carnivore 31 day challenge October 2022

[MeganNZ]

Hey @Azi Linda, don’t go. Stay and talk it out. I’m a bit torn about how to respond. On one hand I want to say

“(1) Michael was just giving his opinion about what he heard on the video, and (2) he was trying to rephrase something you said that wasn’t clear b/c it lacked a bit of punctuation, and (3) I really doubt he meant to offend you, my experience of him on this forum is he doesn’t have a mean bone in his body”

and “I’m sorry you’re feeling unsupported, I spent a week feeling wtf and gob smacked at the crickets in response to what I posted re changes I’d made to what I was eating in an attempt to deal with a possible nutrient deficiency, so I feel ya grl and it really sucks”

I’m glad changing your protein/fat %s is working so well for you. I was very surprised when I joined KetoAF to see so many people ad lib carni wasn’t working for, despite years of eating carni. Surprised too that the main response they had gotten was to just eat more meat and give it more time, when some of them had been trying that for several years. And the folks who were booted from groups on the web for questioning that advice and wanting to explore what the heck was going on in their body.

[Naghite]

Hi Azi,

I apologize if you felt attacked. I am 100% about the science, and having spent hundreds of dollars and many many hours proving things correct or incorrect, I feel it is important to get and give factual information in the boards. As one example, I heard from Nutrition Judy that copper was toxic, so I did not worry about my low copper intake. A few months later I had copper deficiency. I would feel obligated to respond now to anyone who posts the concerns for copper that copper is indeed vital to produce red blood cells and needs to balance zinc, as I have since learned.
I enjoy your posts and was happy to see you finding success with more fat. I hope you continue to find success whether you continue here or not, although I would hate for you to leave thinking I was in any way being negative about you. As I admitted, I find Cywes grating, but that is not a personal attack on you, just some guy you see a few times a year.
I hope you have a great day

[Naghite]

@FrankoBear I spoke with my mom. Her heart was racing to 220 beats per min and irregular rhythm as well. Sounds like they did burn her heart as the procedure to fix/ deaden some nerve bundle in her heart. She was glad for the procedure but it seems like you have chosen to avoid the same procedure.

I was not much help, but just following up from a previous post.

[Fangs]

oh no Azi…you hang here we got ya!!! Sometimes it happens ya know but you sure are an important member on our thread, please hang. We truly know you seek out great info to pass on thru your vigilence in finding what works well and telling us what other info is being said out there on carnivore and what people are trying and more. Please hang and as you can see WE ALL want you to hang for sure

@JJFiddle
SUPER congrats on those pants!!
nothing like ‘too big’ pants we just keep on wearing huh? I am glad ya now see you as smaller and need sizes that fit, so cool!!

------------------fast post guys

been super duper busy and this ol’ gal tho don’t truly like super busy

wedding yesterday. Bro said it was ‘bbq feast’ but omg it was a friggin’ ‘taco bar’ and a sad one at that. Surprised on it. Nothing to eat but only cubed chicken and some cheese. Refried beans, beans/peppers, corn floating in some milky floury gravy, super spiced rice, veg fixin’ for taco and I was like…huh? OK this ain’t good but they only had chicken for the meat. Thankfully not spiced. Just grilled with like a little poultry seasoning so I grabbed a giant plate of it and topped with little feta and more cheddar. Funny cause my nephew when he saw my plate said OMG Aunt Karen, you are so committed, you still carnivore? and I am like YUP smiling ear to ear on that one. I figured he forgot it and said wow you sure are dedicated LOL I thought it was funny cause then he said ‘scurvy’ and I proved that wrong in 2 sentences and then he looked at me and said he gives up…haha…we had so much fun tho at the wedding. alot of dancing! Drank 6 beers and my guts paid for it tho. beer/wine only and those 6 I slammed down are still with my bloat this morning LOL ugh…but feel good tho. bacon being cooked now so that will make me feel better.

steak, bacon, chicken today for me but might sub shrimp for that chicken…I am kinda chicken’d out.

ZC on strong guys!!! What we naming Nov? Was it like NoPlant’vember or some play on that?

[Shinita]

Things got out of hand but I experimented, got some nice recipe for slightly off days… And a huge, irresistible desire to stay away from plant carbs for a long time.

I am back on carni! Tomorrow is still October but I don’t care, it will be November somewhere in the world at my lunchtime and Monday is a nice day to start things… And I had enough.

Lean pork is defrosting, sausage and chuck did it earlier (I planned to eat it today but it didn’t happen), I have not many but enough eggs… I start with a strict day. My goals and plans for November will be written in the new thread.

I. Want. Sunshine!!! We have fog therefore humid air all the time. I can’t mow the lawn for the last time, the grass is all wet…

[Karen18]

@JJFiddle next tim you see your friends daughter you must say something. Even if it is just something like hey research the carnivore woe, I have heard it’s a great way to tackle inflammatory issues. Then leave it with her, she can either do some research or not but you will maybe have sown a seed and who knows she may try it. I don’t bite my lip ever if I think I can pass on some beneficial info and hopefully changes someone’s life for the better… and you won’t go away thinking I wish I had said something.

@Azi please stay with us, I enjoy your posts and I think you will miss your friends on here. I don’t think anything on here is ever said in malice and it really is down to how we are feeling at the time we read it and so scews the way we percieve it. Please don’t make a hasty decision

@FrankoBear good to hear you had a great evening and found a place to eat with doggos. That practice stopped here for quite some time but the other day I was in a cafe and someone walked in with doggo, it seemed so strange having not seen it for some time but altogether welcome. Also when my daughter and I took my son over to see the greyhounds at the garden centre few weeks ago there was a doggo friendly area in their cafe. I notice these thi gs even though I don’t have a dggo at the moment.

@Fangs weddings and food have got me before now. Very rare anything I can eat and sounds like you probably just wanted something bigger to get your teeth into lol. My daughter put pulled pork on for her evening buffet and at the time i didn’t like pork and even back then didn’t eat buns, I can remember trying the pork and wanting to throw up with the first bite! Everyone else was like nom nom nom Her wedding was in the Oct and i didn’t Keto till the following May during lockdown and subsequently carnivore in the November.

@Sanita more chick wings photos hahahaha

First pic of wings weren’t cooked enough from me and not crispy enough so I chucked them back in oven for a while longer and were much better in 2nd pic so the first meal was about 2.40 and then the tuna mayo about 7pm.

Went to my daughters house to kitty sit Astrid this morning and intended staying for an hour or so. When I arrived she immediately was on my lap for some love then eventually she went upstairs. At 10 30 my daughter text to say they would be home about 12.30 and I told her i was about to go home and within 10 seconds that flippin kitty was walking in the kitchen and jumped back on my lap… 6th sense or what? … you ain’t going anywhere hooman! Hahaha well she then stayed on my lap till Sian and Dave walked through the door at 12.50! Was i gasping for a brew lol … I wouldn’t get anything done if I had a kitty as snuggly as that! My mum always said let sleeping cats n dogs lay.

[Naghite]

Breakfast started big again, 19 ounce ribeye. Lunch was smaller.

[Shinita]

@Naghite: Sounds a good day eating wise to me! 19oz meat is a nice amount for a bigger meal in my world too.

Why I ever thought (well I didn’t just wasn’t hungry and ate other things) that I can pull off a day without meat? I had a late meal, sausage, pork chuck and while I had no real problem before but things felt more right afterwards. I just supposed I may need protein and meat when I stopped being satiated though hunger didn’t develop, that’s why I ate.
But I will try to eat properly during the day as I should.

[MeganNZ]

Possibly interesting piece of writing about pork. What do you guys think? I eat quite a bit of it and am going to try marinating it in apple cider vinegar to see if I notice any difference.

Pork | Eat Meat. Drink Water. (zerocarbzen.com)

[FrankoBear]

Happy Pumpkin Day to those that celebrate it. It’s the final day here in the future, Oct 31, for the ZC Rocktober challenge. And I reckon we are all a bit more knowledgeable and aware after this month.

I don’t know anything about All Hallows’ Eve. From a distance, it does seem to be another feast claimed and manipulated by Big Food and Warehouse Shopping. Some local people here, and some ex-pats like the dress up part by the looks of the local social media. They reckon they are doing it for their kids to treat FOMO, but I reckon, without historical context, it is a Pandora’s junk food box.

——————

Hi Michael. Yes, that is the procedure. Thanks for thinking of me and checking in with your mum. The procedure is called an ablation, but is described as burning out an area of the heart in the left atrium with a laser positioned via an endoscope.

My 19 year old nephew had the same procedure on advice from his cardiologist with no discussion about nutrition, lifestyle, or trying medication. The ablation has seemed to have stopped his heart palpitations for now. His cardiologist advises that the procedure is not a permanent fix. It may need to be repeated. My nephew is a physiotherapist student at university, a very fit surfer, who lives off breakfast cereals and Uber eats. He will graduate and be treating people’s sore joints and muscles without a thought to what they are eating.

@Shinita what I described (above) is what I meant when I said I had a cardiologist that wants to ‘fry’ a piece of my heart. I just slipped into Aussie vernacular.

Yes, Michael, the surgery will always be there, hanging around like a lonely ghost, an option, if nutrition, lifestyle and medical procedures don’t work. I’m also aware of a concern @Karen18 expressed about the risk of having a stroke during an atrial fibrillation episode.

Overall, I have found that if I maintain a mindfulness in approach to nutrition and lifestyle, including to adapting to life stressors, my heart behaves. From that I deduce that physical and physiological signals are important to heed. For me, I’ll salt my food to taste, read my signals, and supplement magnesium regularly.

My current view is the surgical ablation of some heart tissue may result in a fix but it is not tackling the foundation health issues that are being communicated by the Afib.

---

@Fangs Moovember was popular as a November ZC Challenge title. I thought of @Alecmcq the carnivore as he combines his carnivore with moo-ving his body around to great health success.

[FrankoBear]

Great article to read. Thanks Megan.

I eat bacon at breakfast. But for dinner I eat ruminants, lamb or beef.

I wonder if the fermentation feeders, the ruminant animals, break down the potential (plant?) toxin in their digestion, so it doesn’t get into the meat?

I also note that Paleo Medicina, the Hungarian medical practice that uses the paleo keto diet (PKD) uses Mangalica pork. So, I wonder if the pig breed is a factor? I don’t know how Paleo Medicina advise their patients to prepare or cook the pork based diet. Maybe there is fermentation or marinading involved?

Lots to consider. Apple cider vinegar sounds like a good match for cooked pork.

[MeganNZ]

I wonder if the fermentation feeders, the ruminant animals, break down the potential (plant?) toxin in their digestion, so it doesn’t get into the meat?

It could well be that for sure. Certainly didn’t like reading what fresh pork can do in the blood. Bacon tho didn’t have an affect so us bacon eaters are safe!

I’d love to eat more ruminant meat, esp beef, but cost has me turning a lot to pork. Mince/ground beef is the cheapest beef here at $15-$25 a kilo, depending on fat content. Crazy sh*t! I never thought of myself as a fussy eater but have definitely discovered I am when eating this way. I’ve tried cooking mince in various ways and just don’t dig it at all. My next option, price wise, is rump steak at $22-$30 a kilo, depending on where I shop. I need to make another trip to the cheapest place and stock up again. Eating a lot of meat is getting more and more expensive!

Have a couple of question marks about where I can get a couple of micronutrients on carni, but am back carni now I am feeling so much better. Really not a fan of seafood but am going to make myself have some and think of it as medicine lol. Could probably manage to swallow an oyster or 2 but at $20 for a 200 gram pottle that isn’t happening. My supermarket has pottles of muscles that are a bit more affordable but they are loaded with carbs, so for now it’ll be tinned wild caught sardine and mackerel. Tinned tuna and salmon is pretty cheap but its factory farmed fish, nothing like the stuff growing wild in the oceans.

[Azi]

After all your replys I have decided I will stick around and thank you to each of you that did reply…this had been home for long time now and yes @karen I would miss you all.

@MeganNZ yeah pork does have an affect on my blood glucose and ketones they been down at 0.5 0.8 upon waking and alot of ppl in with Amber find that too…but I did notice that I did a meal of air fried pork fat til crunchy with butter for my first meal about 5 hours ago and just checked blood and ketones …bg was 81 and ketones 3.0. So not sure …

But I’m going to try and do a few days of lamb and beef 3 ounces per meal and see what happens.

[MeganNZ]

That’s awesome @Azi Linda, so glad!

[Azi]

Try cheaper cuts and slow cook them I find chuck roast done long and slow really can be a really good option…ground beef you could make it into a meatza tasty and add toppings. Or make it into meat balls and add to a alfredo sauce… but if marinated pork works there is no harm in trying.
And the carbs in seafood you ignore just watch how portions affect you…
You. Could also make ground beef/mince into burger patties and use egg yolk and butter to make waffles for the buns…

[JJFiddle]

What a lot of good stuff to read in the last 24 hours! Good deep thought to consider.
Yes @FrankoBear and @Fangs Moovember was the clear winner. So clever!
@Karen18 and @FrankoBear I may not see that girl again, but I know her mother. However, the mom wouldn’t be amenable I’m sure, so possibly at another time if I do see the daughter, I might mention it, or just Mikhail Peterson, who famously reversed her lifetime rheumatoid arthritis through the carnivore woe. Hubby believes I should never ever mention my woe to anyone as I’ll be seen as extremely weird. And yet he supports my decision and tries to help me find foods and restaurants-- bizarre.

@MeganNZ good article re the Weston Price study! Surprising findings about bacon and prosciutto. I have thought in the past that I had subtle reactions to eating pork. Earlier in the year when digestive adaptation was difficult, pork would send me to the bathroom for most of the night. I do like to have a pork roast and a beef roast ready in the fridge for variety during the week, and shrimp in the freezer, boiled eggs in the fridge, to make meals easier. That having been said it would be so easy to marinate pork in vinegar simply by adding some to the sous vide bag. Maybe a quarter cup? It’s worth a try.
I doubt the vinegar flavor would remain when the meat was cooked.

Today I thought would go quick, just packing. Ha. Had to decide which clothes to leave behind with no return date decided. So any XL clothes were stacked and left here, some things I haven’t worn in 15 years were tried and packed. We’re working through Christmas in TX so older dresses might be good with cowboy boots for the restaurant job, and it turned into a real project! Western wear is lots of fun, we’re really enjoying getting into the swing of it in our performances.
Meanwhile we planned to pack and then go to the mall for dinner, but it took so long - I soft boiled eggs for lunch, then a few hours later ate a hard boiled egg, and finally at 6 we were ready to go. At the mall we ordered hamburgers - mine of course just the plain patty, fries to go to hubby, and a lobster bisque to split. I didn’t eat much of it - there was definitely flour in it! even though the menu said just cream and lobster… sure.
I’ve learned over decades that there’s always better food at home, so never stress over restaurant food. The patty with melted cheddar was just fine for me. A little cognac and 2 big glasses of water.
@Fangs you did great with your big plate of chicken and cheese! But I’d be the same today - enough with the chicken already! LOL

In the morning we roll out, westward ho! Wednesday evening we’ll be back on the ranch. There’s upsides and downsides, of course. It’s not as convenient there to just run out and get something like it is in this big Washington DC metropolis - but it’s so much more peaceful out in the country. I look forward to getting back in tune with the phases of the moon.

[FrankoBear]

I’d love to eat more ruminant meat, esp beef, but cost has me turning a lot to pork. Mince/ground beef is the cheapest beef here at $15-$25 a kilo

You’re across the ditch? Cripes, try the spring lamb. It is so delicious here. It is the cheapest meat at the butcher, in the range of beef mince.

I thought New Zealanders might have good access to green-lip mussels? So good for lowering joint inflammation and treat arthritis (plenty of old pet supplements include them). I find them delicious as a marine source of nutrients. I’m still looking for canned or jarred snails to try.

[MeganNZ]

You’re across the ditch? Cripes, try the spring lamb. It is so delicious here. It is the cheapest meat at the butcher, in the range of beef mince.

Ha! You’d think we’d be able to access lamb at a decent price huh, but nope! It’s crazy expensive, I only buy it when it’s on a very good special. Supermarkets used to have big bins full of mussels with water automatically spraying them all the time. It’s like no one cooks anymore! About 85% of the meat sold in my local supermarkets is turned into ultra processed rubbish that people can just heat and eat. Most local butchers shut down years ago, we have a few butchery chains type stores but not many. And the meat sold in them certainly isn’t cheap. I spent quite a bit of time on my Aunt and Uncle’s sheep and dairy farm as a kid. We drank milk straight from the cow and the entire extended family had freezers overflowing with home kill. 2022 is light years from how life was back then.

(plenty of old pet supplements include them)

Grace gets 4 a day, Lulu gets 2 lol. Have Grace on a double dose b/c the supplement I buy is full of great stuff and she’s fighting cancer. I guess I could take some of theirs?!

[FrankoBear]

I might start a small scale protein (snail) farm in Moovember. And fed them high nutrition plants from high nutrition soil. This is all thanks to a small comment/advice/knowledge from @Naghite Michael.

It's been a slow start, but this nurse is well on her way to becoming a snail...

Snail farmer struggling to keep up with demand as alternative meat popularity...

[MeganNZ]

ground beef you could make it into a meatza tasty and add toppings.

Hey hey Linda, I had to look up what a meatza tasty was. And add toppings? On carni? Like a few shrimp, some diced bacon, a couple of eyeballs and testes stolen from Michael’s fridge? Scuse my sense of humour, just making me laugh trying to work out what carnivore toppings are. Thanks for the great ideas tho! I half remember the ground beef, egg and cheese patties I made a few times tasted ok once cold in the fridge. I’ll grab some more mince next time I see it on an okay special.