Carnivore Help! Bowels & Energy

(Chris) #81

Adaptation can take a few months.

(David) #82

Yes. I am happy to be patient. It took a long time to get my body here, I shouldn’t expect it to take 20 minutes to get better.

I sometimes wish our bodies were more like engines which we could trouble shoot. Instead, it seems that the observable outcomes of lifestyle changes are dependent on so many variables, even with highly restricted inputs, as to make it very easy to throw our hands up or the towel in.

For instance, for the first 10 days I felt great. Yes I had some fatigue and some gut adjustments, but my asthma improved, my acid reflux went away together with bloating and I felt better generally. Then yesterday I ate two ribeyes and felt nausea and loss of appetite for 18 hours with a mild but unwelcone asthma reaction and now have acid reflux again.

I ate the steak much rarer than usual as an experiment, which may have been the cause. I also bought it from a different supplier which may have made the difference. It may just have been part if the adjustment process. It might have been a histamine reaction. It might be something unknown. Controlling the variables is a challenging and probably impossible task in its own.

I just keep thinking about the outcome I am aiming for, not looking at the stumbles and slips along the way.

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks for your reply.

(Chris) #83

Hey man, I want you to know, I really respect your mindset. So many people expect to hit their goal in a month, regardless of what “diet” they choose. You have a great “big picture” way of looking at it, and I like that. Good for you.

(David) #84

Thanks, but let’s touch base in 6 months to see if I’m worthy.

By the way, I’ve just been looking at your “work in progress” thread. Great conscious commitment and eyes on the prize attitude. Kudos to you.

(Chris) #85

Cheers man, thank you. I figure no one’s going to do it for me, so I might as well stick to it.

(Cathrine Helle) #86

I can’t remember which podcast it was, but I heard someone say that it can take up to 6 months for your gut to get rid of the bacteria that are causing issues. The same goes for inflamed gut; this is a slow process. I’m thinking that I won’t have a time limit for my carnivore experiment - I’ll keep going as long as I can. My biggest challenge have always been social situations. Hopefully I’ll learn how to deal with them as I go. I try to be mentally prepared, and hopefully will a carnivorous diet give me both physichal and mental strength. I want to feel healthy and robust. Personally I would say that 6 months should be a minimum to heal a gut, but this is only based on what others have said, and my own assumptions.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #87

Could that have been your satiety signaling kicking in? When I eat too much, these days, I not only lose interest in food, but I get queasy at the thought of more. Of course, it’s not nausea to the point of thinking I might vomit, so perhaps we’re talking about different things. But still, I’d be curious.

But what started me thinking about this was a phrase I read recently, and which has been running through my mind, something to the effect that one of the evil side effects of this way of eating was “the anorexia of ketosis”! As though getting enough food and not wanting any more for a while was a bad thing!

(David) #88

I wondered the same thing. One message seems to be “eat like its your job” and another is “listen to your body”.

I don’t have a problem with either in principle and don’t necessarily think they conflict.

The steaks I ate yesterday amounted to about 1lb (400g) of meat. I would normally have half of that and felt satisfied.

I ate the steaks quite rare and they tasted almost sweet, almost vinegar. They were fresh and smelled great so I am not too worried about the meat being off.

It’s now 26 hours since I ate them and I can feel my stomach returning to normal.

My own view? I ate too much and my stomach was not ready for such a rare meal, ie not enough stomach acid. This might explain the acid reflux which eased when I had an ACV drink.

I didn’t vomit, and never thought I might. I can’t explain the asthma reaction but this has now gone.

I will hold off eating until I feel like it, and cook my next meal a little better and keep calm and carnivore on!

For what is worth I lost 7lbs in the 11 days once I started. This is more a nice by-product of my real objective which is easing depressive and digestive symptoms and promote body recomposition in conjunction with weights, running and racquet sports.

(Chris) #89

“Eat like its your job” should only apply when bulking, really. Just eat until you’re not hungry. Usually if I’m full on lean, I just stop eating naturally and then notice a few minutes later. If I overdo fat, nausea comes for a short time.

(David) #90

Yes, i agree and am not bulking (I wish I was, but that’s for another day).

Can I ask your view on balancing eating to satiety (which might mean incidental calorie restriction, at least initially) with reduced metabolic rate leading to a negative appetite spiral?

My own thoughts are that if given the chance, and the opportunity to function unimpaired , the body is a pretty self-reliant entity and will sort itself out.

(Chris) #91

That’s my thought as well. I do not think calories matter, regulate hormones with better foods, and the hormones can worry about counting calories.

#92

Yo @Chance. Sorry my replies late coming. So I couldn’t work it out. I was really struggling on Carnivore. Getting nowhere and struggling to function in any form. It wasn’t adaption. There was something else going on. The digestive symptoms I was getting were very odd and unbearable.

So I kept researching and came across Aajonus Vonderplanitz work. Because of the nature of my suffering I became really intrigued. He basically promotes a raw predominantly Carnivore diet. Now that doesn’t sound as appealing as eating BBQ’ed ribeyes until you can eat no more but I wanted to feel well too bad. So I gave it a go. 100% Raw. Lamb, Lambs Liver, eggs, fresh Raw Milk from my local farm. Well it’s working!!! Completely different to my original Carnivore experiences. My digestion better than I ever remembered. My energy is super high and my concentration is rock solid. I’m running 50 miles a week again. Constipation free! Happy and content. My skins clear. My sleep! That’s another thing that was rough on Carnivore. It’s amazing now. Every nights a joy. Plus I’m not having to spend every evening reading Carnivore forum posts. Because I feel great. Why bother. I get on with having a great day and being productive.

Why? I’m not sure. Raw Liver is a superfood I’m sure of that. I’ve had chest pains and hypotension for over 2 years now. I’ve found out when I get them now. If I eat raw liver they disappear. So I guess that implies it to be a nutrional deficiency. Also the raw milk mixed with raw eggs just feels great. It all does. It’s made me believe certain beneficial nutrients, bacteria and enzymes are damaged in the cooking process. That’s commonly toted. Certainly my experience. So easy on the stomach. I’m really putting a high priority on nutrient density rather than just eat meat, drink water. It works for some but I’m an advocate for a different approach. It just feels right. Can’t promote it enough. Everyone thinks I’m weird but I literally don’t care I feel so good. I never felt great on Carnivore. I was just waiting for the euphoria to arrive if I suffered the ‘adaption’ for long enough. Well it turns out good health is available tomorrow eating this way. So I’ll do that instead and risk a few weird looks.

So there’s my anecdotal experience. A bit different from everyone else’s but none the less informative. Worth a go if you’re struggling. Still Carnivore. Just not Shawn Baker Carnivore and that’s ok with me.

(David) #93

That’s awesome to hear such a success story. Thanks for replying, now get on with having a fantastic healthy life!!!

#94

Haha thanks man. Might of come over a bit excited. But it’s really good. Hopefully be able to incorporate some socially acceptable meals in time so I keep some friends. But I’m seeing it as a healing protocol for now.

(Nicole Sawchuk) #95

Did any one listen to Peter Attia’s podcast with Robert Lustig MD? Before 1:13:00 he talks about this:
"Here’s the thing that I only learned about a month and a half ago which is absolutely essential If you don’t consume fiber, that means that your gut bacteria are not getting the food they need
Because you’re absorbing it all early, but your bacteria still have to survive: so what do they do?
They proteolyze and lipolyze the mucin layer
They autodigest the mucin layer that sits on the surface of your intestinal epithelial cells, protecting them
You can actually see on electron microscopy an increased apposition of the bacteria with the intestinal epithelial cell, which likely causes damage, possibly a leaky gut, and possibly GI diseases like colitis, and even maybe Crohn’s’

‘The idea is to feed your bacteria or your bacteria will digest you’

This seems to be contradictory to Carnivores. They aren’t forming crohn’s with lack of fibre. Bowels are not being eaten out like they said.

(Chris) #96

Does he back that up with anything? Because it seems the mucous is a reaction to fiber scratching (damaging) the lining of the colon. Not only that, but if you don’t feed the harmful bacteria that thrives on fiber, it dies and bacteria that eats what you feed it thrives.

I just want to know where he comes off thinking the mucous is somehow essential. Usually claims like these are made by people that have never tried it, regardless of the capital letters after their name.

(Nicole Sawchuk) #97

I should add that he said this without any implication to the Carnivore diet but was explaining how fibre can prevent the further absorption of sugar into the system (ie. with fruit). So it was in a different context but just got me thinking to a carnivore application.

My personal stance is that while gut micro biodome is important and has a role, my “gut” says we have it all wrong with its actual role and there is so much misinformation being spread out there.

(Chris) #98

Exactly, context is of the utmost importance, but the bigger takeaway is that we still know very little about the gut biome, a lot of the science out there now is assumptions.

(David) #100

I wondered about this. Here is my kindergarten results. Some people talk about the gut lining being formed from mucin, which is present in skin and bone marrow and connective tissue. A deficiency in this is also linked to dry eyes, nose and mouth. Alternatively, a deficiency in vitamin c seems to be a suspected cause.

As I’ve written elsewhere, I have a very dry mouth and nose, and now eyes, so I am going to make some bone broth and add a small amount daily to my steak to see if it makes a difference.

PS all the above is just “stuff I’ve read” not research. Anything anyone else can add (or detract) would be welcomed.

#101

That’s interesting. I’ve ordered some bone marrow. Love that stuff. Be interesting to see how you go @Chance