Carnivore claims about plant foods

[PaulL]

The links you posted were about protein intake for effective bodybuilding, not about the maximum intake the body can metabolize.

[Rob_Grantham]

The point of the studies showed that in highly trained bodybiluilders the level at which protein had no further effect on the body was 1.6g/kg. These individuals trained some of them for 4 hours daily with very heavy weights. This is probably as relevant to maximum demand as possible. They could still seeNO advantage of intaking more than 1.6g/kg. Maybe you believe this is irrelevant

It is misleading to inform people they can eat as much protein as they want

[Karim_Wassef]

So when I set a protein target of 200g a day (lean mass is 140lbs, 64kg), am I going to reduce my longevity and increase my risk of cancer?

[anon2571578]

And as has been illustrated by my showing evidence, basic google searches produce contradictory results. If you google nutrition content for any number of foods you will likely not find a consensus. They can’t all be right, obviously.

You still haven’t answered my question FYI, but seeing as how you’re obviously a sealion, I won’t hold my breath that you will.

[djindy]

It’s already sold in that state though, that’s the problem. It’s prepared prior to sale.

Re-read what I said. You have to talk to them and ask them not to cut the stuff off. In their normal routine, they will do so, yes, and put out on the floor what they normally do. If you are going to a real butcher though, that’s not the way they get the meat, they do that at the shop and are constantly butchering meat and probably have plenty of unbutchered meat around at various times. Maybe they don’t on a particular day or time, but so ask them for the next time if you can put in an advanced request for them to leave extra fat on or whatever. If you’re willing to buy enough, they probably won’t mind since it’s less work for them and technically yields better profits (since you’re paying for that extra fat weight they would normally get rid of most likely).

I know, I don’t like having to talk to people for unusual things either, and so if you want to avoid it, that’s fine. I’m saying it’s possible to do.

If they are just getting the stuff pre-packaged from somewhere else themselves, then that’s not a butcher, that’s just a grocer (which is the problem I have). Though, my buddy who used to work in meat departments at big grocery stores did used to say back then they had butchers on staff and even the pre-packaged stuff you could just ask them to cut differently (from what I understand, a lot of those went away for a lot of chains since they were expensive in the last few years though).

That’s actually very impolite. “I’m going to have to see a citation”

That’s pretty equivalent to, and perhaps more polite than, saying, “Show me the science” which is the name of this section of the forum and might as well be the catch phrase of the 2keto dudes.

[amber]

In fact, it’s the growing of the brain that necessitated reliance on meat and fat. Most “fruits and vegetables” were essentially all fibre in the evolutionary context, and we didn’t have cooking to release what little starch we could find. We gave up essentially all of our ability to process fibre into fat exactly because we could get the fat directly and that was a better strategy.

[collaroygal]

Some of us have killed & prepped the animals we eat. I had a great aunt that made me slaughter chickens, skin the rabbits and squirrels she killed, gut and clean the catfish from the pool, do it or go without dinner. Everything I know about living that is worth knowing I learned from her.

[Alpha]

I never was able to kill animals.

My younger brother does it but he was trained by my father at young age.

I tried and I wanted to kill animals but I could not do it.

[FrankoBear]

I’m rather dismayed by that, which leads me to believe he is not entirely sure about the whole ketogenic diet thing? But maybe he is not really concerned about being in ketosis constantly?

You could ask him. I asked Gary Taubes a question the other day (about deafness) and he replied.
benjamin_bikman@byu.edu Better than speculation.

[FrankoBear]

I’m calling sea lion at this point.

Crikey, I thought sea lion, initially, was a suggestion as a source of protein.

Good call 6d ago.

The debate does feel “led on”.

I had to look the term up, following up on the suggestion that the primary author could do some of their own research online rather than peppering the forum with questions, ( Internet , slang ) To intrude on a conversation with disingenuous questions in an attempt to engage in unwanted debate as a form of harassment.

Not sure it is harassment. Or unbound curiosity to interrogate the knowledge and belief of forum users game enough to reply. My feeling is that currently suspended G_whistler knows/knew more than they were letting on. But I can’t cite a paper on that.

I can’t see why that would then gain the title sea lion. They seem like quite nice critters and only sometimes raid lobster pots.

Thanks for boosting my forum vocabulary.

[atomicspacebunny]

I think I will…lol

Ok did it, will wait for response!

[atomicspacebunny]

No study has ever examined the effect of vitamin C with metformin

So which is it? Am I extending my life or shortening it?

What is so fascinating about metformin is the smallest dose possible seems to have that hepatic inhibition of mTORC1 which inihibit and prevent the onset of liver cancer tumors and has other anti-aging affects and properties. But too much metformin can lead to hyperlactatemia or metabolic (lactic) acidosis (reduced blood PH) which feed cancer cells in reverse?

[MarkGossage]

New one on me too but informative and highly likely in this case to be correct as the person in question has been here before under diff names and on other fora too…
I was accused of “gaslighting” on twitter which I found to mean

Which was another new one and all I did was to suggest he reread what I had written… poor fragile soul…
I think I’m getting to old for all this new language…

[Justin_Jordan]

#1062; The Terrible Sea Lion

And yes, this is what they were doing.

[FrankoBear]

Wondermark

#1062; The Terrible Sea Lion

(Click to read the whole comic)

And yes, this is what they were doing.

That is brilliant!

[atomicspacebunny]

http://www.comby.org/documents/documents_in_english/stefansson-diet-adventures.htm

Dietary glucose metabolically competes with vitamin C. This should be textbook biology.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16118484/

If you consume less glucose, you need less vitamin C. In fact, if you consume vitamin C, you can change the absorption of glucose.

A few words about this, I think when talking in the context of Vitamin C (high in raw glandular adrenals of animals and other raw organ meats) and trying to compare a modern day zero carb carnivore to traditional Inuits and the explorations of Stefansson is like comparing apples with oranges? Two entirely different subjects?

Bottom line, traditional Inuits were never deficient in ratios of vitamin C according to level of intake and if so not for very long[1]?

The human body can mistake (or use) high amounts of glucose for vitamin C[4]?

Vitamin C is highest in chili peppers and the outer bitter skin of fruits like orange peels!

From the evolutionary perspective humans and other life forms lost their ability to naturally produce vitamin C where the GULO enzyme gene once resided (mutation) in the liver or the kidneys[2][3]!

References:

[1] “…Meat products are not perceived or marketed as a source of vitamin C, perhaps due to the limited consumption of organ meats which may contain levels above 18 mg/100 g. According to Stefansson (1946), disbelief was the reaction of health professionals at John Hopkins to his recount of a year’s survival in the Arctic on a meat-based diet, absent in fruit and vegetables. The physicians and nutritionists firmly believed that only fruit and vegetables could supply the anti-scorbutic properties of food (Stefansson 1946). Stefansson provided evidence that a diet containing fresh meat alone was sufficient to ward off scurvy. There have been no studies to my knowledge that have explored the potential adaptation of people of the circumpolar areas to a diet containing vitamin C at levels below those established for the general population based on kinetic studies in males (Arroyave 1971). …” …More

[2] “…Humans do not produce Vitamin C due to a mutation in the GULO (gulonolactone oxidase) gene, which results in the inability to synthesize the protein. …” “…This then spontaneously forms Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C). However without the GULO enzyme, no vitamin C is produced. …” …More

[3] “…The neutrality of vitamin C loss is a function of the environment in which species lives. Individuals from a species which have lost the ability to make their own vitamin C will not be selected against as long as their diet contains sufficient quantities of vitamin C. This is why the function of the GLO gene has been lost repeatedly during evolution. However, individuals from such a species will develop scurvy if their diet changes so as to no longer contain sufficient amounts of vitamin C. Such diet changes occurred repeatedly during human history, causing the death of millions of people [65, 66]. Vitamin C loss is therefore only neutral when sufficient quantities of vitamin C are part of the diet. …” …More

[4] “…Vitamin C is structurally similar to glucose and can replace it …” …More

[Ilana_Rose]

I was accused of “gaslighting” on twitter

I think I’m getting to old for all this new language…

This one is not at all new. It stems from an old movie called “Gaslight” where a husband is trying to make his wife and everyone else believe she is crazy in order to get her committed. Great movie. Anyhow, the term “gaslighting” has been in use for several decades.

[PaulL]

Not sure it is harassment.

Oh, it definitely is. The admins’ consensus is that G_Whistler is the third forum incarnation of the same character, who appears to delight in stirring up trouble. There is some value, however, in permitting these discussions to continue for a while, since they generate useful information that can benefit others.

I was accused of “gaslighting” on twitter

Gaslight, starring Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman, directed by George Cukor. Good film—have a watch.

[djindy]

I’m going to say, I’m rather on the Sea Lion’s side in that comic, other than when they enter someone elses house at night. The dude did just straight up insult and express hate for their entire species and was unwilling to give any reason for so doing at all, and the Sea Lion was polite on the matter.

Calling someone a sealion like that seems like it would be against the community guidelines though, considering that’s simply name calling.

[anon2571578]

The point of the whole thing is that you don’t want to attract the sealion’s attention because it will do nothing but waste your time arguing in circles while it pretends to be clueless, knowing full well that it’s intentionally trying to do nothing more than wear down your patience. All the while being as “polite” as possible, so when you inevitably do lose your temper, they consider it a “win.” It has no interest in the topic at hand, why you “don’t like sealions,” it knows why you don’t like sealions, it just wants to leech your emotional energy.

And calling a troll a troll hardly constitutes namecalling.