Carnivore Diet: Why would it work? What about Nutrients and Fiber?

(Consensus is Politics) #4

This is very interesting. The science behind keto. For the past couple of months I have been worried because I haven’t eaten much in the form of any vegetables. Scurvy did come to mind.

I was thinking about scurvy in the only example I can remember hearing about it. People crossing the Atlantic on ships, coming to the New World. What I remember was they would get sick because they ate pretty much the same thing everyday. Most likely something like dried meats, bread, cheese come to mind. Foods I think used to be referred to as “iron rations” I think. (Iron rations was a term used in WW 1&2 for emergency rations the were as imperishable as possible. Mostly dried meats and cheeses and biscuits (aka cookies) and sugar :thinking:).

I’m sure they only ate from their stores whe they were unable to catch fish along the way. I’m surprised scurvy was the only big problem we hear about them having.

Of course the cure for scurvy was citrus fruits. Hence the term “Limey”.

As a kid learning this I seem to remember it was said that scurvy was a vitamin C deficiency. I think if they ate more of their dried beef along the way instead of fish they caught, it might never have been a problem.

(Brian) #5

I would also think that among the poor, especially the rural folk, of years past, there would probably have been more staple carbs such as potatoes, beans, and maybe rice depending upon how far south you were. Very carby but they would have filled a person’s belly. And fairly easy for most to grow themselves. It would have been cheap food.

(Chris) #6

13 months plant-free and thriving. Clearly I died of the scurv a year ago!

(Todd Allen) #7

The video mentioned a Joe Rogan interview with Mikhaila Peterson, a woman who has resolved some extreme health issues with a diet of beef and salt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_7688Zk6s

#8

you may find this link interesting.


Apparently it isn’t the lack of vitamin C that does you in.
It is the carbs you eat while not getting the vit C that are the problem.

So carbs+insufficient C = scurvy
while no carbs + no vit C > alternate pathway switches on, and no scurvy.
ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate may be the anti-scorbutic factor involved in this process, but don’t ask me how, because my little grey cells can’t cope with the techy stuff.

(Bunny) #9

From the comments on the web page in your link.

Looks like scurvy comes from eating processed meats or salted (as a preservative) “jerked” meat!

That makes perfect sense to me!

One of many things I question is lack of mucus production contributing to colon cancer from eating only muscle meats (long-term) and not bone or organ meats?

The only thing I can see as to why it works temporarily is because of the low sugar intake or low and slow glucose production and complete elimination of in-organic processed carbohydrates including GMO-Monsanto: toxins.

I do think that is where the misunderstanding is, in that thinking only eating muscle meats indefinitely is healthy when that is not the reason for the improved health or weight loss?

#10

Further down the page that theory (that scurvy comes from preserved meat) was thoroughly discussed and comprehensively dismissed in one of the comments.

Personally, I have no axe to grind in this. Whilst I am carnivore, I also have malabsorption issues which means that I’m not absorbing all the nutrients I need from the food I eat, whether that food is animal or vegetable. So I supplement several vits and mins - including small doses of naturally sourced Vit C. Also Magnesium, Potassium, D3, K2 and several B vits. Since doing so, I am feeling better, but cannot identify vit C’s contribution (if any) as a factor in this.

(Bunny) #11

…no C with the processed carbs, as you said!

(Bunny) #12

That is truly amazing, found this additional bit on it also:

The ketone body, D-b-hydroxybutyrate (D-bHB), is a natural inhibitor of class I and IIa histone deacetylases that repress transcription of the FOXO3a gene. Therefore, ketosis results in transcription of the enzymes of the antioxidant pathways. In addition, the metabolism of ketone bodies results in a more negative redox potential of the NADP antioxidant system, which is a terminal destructor of oxygen free radicals.

Addition of D-bHB to cultures of C. elegans extends life span. We hypothesize that increasing the levels of ketone bodies will also extend the life span of humans and that calorie restriction extends life span at least in part through increasing the levels of ketone bodies. An exogenous ketone ester provides a new tool for mimicking the effects of caloric restriction that can be used in future research. The ability to power mitochondria in aged individuals that have limited ability to oxidize glucose metabolites due to pyruvate dehydrogenase inhibition suggests new lines of research for preventative measures and treatments for aging and aging-related disor- ders.

image
A64F20B2-73A8-477F-B089-26BD0C842017.jpeg1125×978 259 KB

The NADPH system of antioxidant enzymes and NADPH-dependent molecular antioxidants. The two primary pathways providing sufficient electron donors for the reduction of oxidized species in the cytosol, organelles, and membranes are shown. This is accomplished, in part, through NADPH-dependent reduction of glutathione (GSH), vitamin C (Vit C), and vitamin E (Vit E). The redox potential of these secondary systems are all set by the redox potential of the free cytosolic [NADP1]/[NADPH] system to which they are linked enzymatically. …More

Carnivore claims about plant foods
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

In an interview the CBC did with Steffansson, and which someone posted on the forums, he pooh-poohed the idea of eating mostly organ meat, and claimed that wasn’t true. It was a surprising comment, since up to that point, Steffansson and organ meat had been pretty well linked in my mind.

On the other hand, I would never discourage anyone from eating organ meat. I love liver, myself.

(Bob M) #15

I eat organs all the time. Had beef heart and beef liver last week. They’re the cheapest meat.

(Cathrine Helle) #16

I was the one posting the clip from the interview with Stefannson, and I was surprised to hear this as well. I would think that there perhaps were different practises regarding who ate what where, but this would be purely speculations on my part :slight_smile:

(J) #17

Correct me if I’m wrong, but sailors subsisting on a diet of preserved meat would likely have been in a state of ketosis. They were not eating grains as they would not keep in the humid sea air. However, fresh meat, especially organ meat, eaten in enough quantity will provide the minimal amount of vitamin c necessary to prevent scurvy.

(Chris) #18

Are you sure about this “not eating grains” thing? Because hard breads were pretty common, even if you had to dip it in coffee to be able to chew it. Source: Great great grandfather was commonly whipped aboardship (Charles W. Morgan was the ship).

#19

Sailors were eating preserved meat and ‘hard tack’ aka ‘ships biscuits’ which was a form of unleavened bread with a long shelf life. It must have had some nutrition because it fed weavils, but it didn’t have much. The basic diet of the 19th century british sailor was (in this order)
ships biscuits
preserved meat
grog (rum diluted in water, with added sugar and lime juice if available)
Veg was only eaten for a few days after each visit to port.

Hardtack recipe:
http://cookit.e2bn.org/historycookbook/904-hardtack-ships-biscuits.html

Salt pork preparation:

Grog recipe:

(Chris) #20

There we go <3

Thanks for providing this.

(J) #21

Fair enough re: hard tack. But my guess is they flexed in and out of ketosis depending on the availability of food and the very taxing work of sailing those vessels.

#22

Just found this link.
Fascinating


First time I have ever heard of burgoo :grinning: I am guessing that modern American burgoo is quite different from 18th and 19th C British naval burgoo though…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #23

I’m not sure about that. The main rations aboard ship, once the fresh food ran out, was hardtack (a very dry biscuit) and salt beef. If the water spoiled, all there would be to drink would be wine (on French ships) or rum (on British). I suppose you might get some accidental fresh protein, however, if not all the maggots fell out when you knocked your biscuit on the table.

#24

Seabiscuit ain’t just a horse