Cant get back into ketosis

newbies
(Chris) #21

Interesting ans how long does far adaptation take? I figured 6 weeks was enough

(Susan) #22

This is because you have been putting your body on a yo-yo cycle and it will take longer and longer… you are best doing a cheat just on special occasions, or for vacations, once in a while =).

(Chris) #23

I think that’s probably my plan. I didnt expect it to kick me out this badly. I just dont understand the science of it if my glucose is gone in 16 hours ish how can I run off noo glucose or no ketones for 4 days? Lol

(Susan) #24

I am no scientist, but I know that it messes up our body when we do this. If it was me, I would do a 48-72 hour fast (to jumpstart you into Ketosis).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #25

Fat adaptation is a process, not a light switch that gets flipped all of the sudden. At 6 weeks that process is in an infant stage. Full fat adaptation takes up to a couple of years to fully develop and have the kind of flexibility to eat a carb load and quickly recover. At the stage you’re in doing that weekly you are essentially starting over each week spending several days out of ketosis most likely and then getting back in for a few days and killing it again. You have to be tight with your carb restriction as long as you can. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Chris) #26

Interesting. What about the seasonal theory? Where the human body was designed to fatten up in the summer months of fruits and stuff that grows then go through winter in ketosis eating animals? One would never then do the 2 year adaptation. (More a question of curiosity)

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #27

@David_Stilley says it well further on. The ultimate goal is NOT ketosis, it is fat adaptation. Ketosis is just the tool we use to get to the goal. You have to stay in ketosis to get to fat adaptation. If you instead subject yourself to in/out you will not get to there. Maybe your goal should be low carb, not keto. There are benefits to derive from eating low carb, ie sub-100 grams per day. But don’t fool yourself, keto is a serious commitment to change your lifestyle.

(Chris) #28

I very much mean keto I love it and the food. I havent experienced the “insane” energy boost or brain body yet even 6 weeks in. But I do feel better snd I lost 40 lbs. My entire reason doing this is to get back to the natural state. A wolf doesnt diet it eats what jts meant to. Humans seem to have lost that. And in my research qnd common sense, keto 100% of the time is not natural. I dont see any natural human at any earth age esting 100% keto 100% of the time. So I’m just asking these questions to get back to how my body was made tk eat. I experimented at 6 weeks and I guess that was far to early to experiment Haha so I’m glad I asked the question or I wouldnt have known that

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #29

No, not quite. The hunting and fishing were easier during the summer but the overall diet remained pretty much the same throughout the year. The exceptions were a few geographic areas where some types of berries and/or nuts might be ‘in season’ for a few weeks or someone stumbled upon a honey tree. There was no ‘fattening up’ during summer eating plant food. That’s a vege/vega myth,

What you, and not only you but most people, don’t realize is that human evolution occurred during the Pleistocene when temperatures world-wide were 15-20 degrees colder than now. Whatever passed for ‘veggies’ were 99% indigestible cellulose. Selective breeding of plants and animals over the course of the last several thousand years has given us the fruits, vegetables and animals we know today. None of these were around during the Pleistocene glaicial maxima. Human beings lived in ketosis for probably 99% of their lives.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #30

There’s a difference between eating low to no carb for 10 months and then eating some fruit or berries when they were in season compared with eating low carb for 6 weeks and starting to indulge in what I imagine in your case may have been FF’s, Bread, Pizza, sugar/fruit and grains and beans?, and whatever else you might have allowed on your Carb Up Saturdays.

It’s also important to remember that the hyper sweet and large, easy to eat high yield fruit we have today wasn’t available to Paleolithic man. And likely the quantities of fruits and nuts (seasonal not available year round and from other climate zones) were a fairly moderate enhancement to meats. These foods may have been “2nd Best” choices when hunting was scarce. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Ken) #31

Are you currently losing weight? If you are, you may very well be adapted with your body just using most of your ketones. If that’s the case, it’s fine eating some carbs on the Weekends. Don’t chase ketones. Ketosis is only a minor part of Lipolysis, the burning of fat for energy. It just happens to be the aspect that is measureable, so people obsess over it.

Adaptation periods vary by individual according to degree of derangement. It can be weeks for some and months for others.

(Chris) #32

This is my next question. Am I fat adapted enough already that my ketones arent registering? I have the gross bresth (my wife says) I am losing weight thriygh I havent checked since Sunday. And even today I checked just now my mmol is .04. I’ve had 6 g net carbs today and 80% fat. And I ate my meal at 930 it’s now 230. Either my body is having huge troubles getting back into ketosis or I’m in it and just not reading kt?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #33

Short answer: no.

Longer answer:

You can lose weight without being in ketosis, otherwise no diet other than keto would result in fat loss and we know that’s not true.

Instead of measuring your ketones, measure your glucose and you’ll get a more useful number. Glucose and ketones are antagonistic, one goes up the other goes down. My bet is you’ve got ‘high normal’ or ‘high’ glucose. Both mean you also have elevated insulin which suppresses fat burn and ketone synthesis.

As for your ‘gross’ breath, there are lots of things that can cause halitosis not related to ketosis. Subjective opinions about it are useless. My breath acetone (BrAce) generally measures 10-40ppm and I have no ‘keto breath’ at all. My guess is probably some of those carbs you ate over the weekend are still fermenting in your intestines. Which brings up the next (somewhat disgusting) question: does your breath smell something like your dumps? Sometimes referred to as ‘compost breath’.

(Chris) #34

Wouldnt high glucose mean I’m pre diabetic? And is that even fixable or is it just genetic?

(Ken) #35

Michael,

No, you can’t lose fat without being in some degree of Ketosis. Ketones production occurs within the context of Lipolysis, with Ketosis as a secondary energy pathway. As long as you’re lipolytic, you are producing ketones. Lipolysis drives ketosis, no matter what diet you are following, even the ones that rely on simple caloric restriction. Ketosis is just overemphasized, creating “Nutty Keto Dogma” rather that a wider understanding of nutrition within a fat based eating pattern. I’ve come to the belief that Ketosis in mainly demand driven much like gluconeogenesis, and should be thought of within the same secondary energy pathway context.

Chris, yes it’s entirely possible you’re adapted. If you are currently losing fat, your limited carb consumption is just fine. Plenty of people eat carbs on the Weekends are successful with fat loss.

(Chris) #36

Interesting ideas. Then what about the optimal ketones and how people feel better at higher ketones?

(Ken) #37

Ketones are merely an energy source because the brain cannot use fatty acids for fuel. They fluctuate. Your body also gets more efficient in using them. There are specific levels recommended by some to treat specific disorders, but that’s not really applicable. Follow the macros, limit carb intake to what you’re already doing and you should be fine.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #38

Ken,

You are always in ‘some degree of ketosis’ even if only basal. Just as you always have glucose in your blood even in so-called ‘deep ketosis’. Pretty much everyone gets to ‘some degree of ketosis’ by early morning as long as you haven’t eaten a big carb meal just before bed. Yet most people, including many on this forum whom you would consider ‘in ketosis’ full-time and very well fat adapted have glucose spikes and ketone lows upon awakening. The thing even has a name: The Dawn Effect.

Ketosis is not demand driven. It is carb-restriction driven. If you want to say that’s ‘demand driven’ I won’t quibble. I would not define it as a ‘secondary’ energy pathway, since I think that most human beings in the 2+ million years of our evolution spent 99% of their lives in ketosis. It has only been since the agricultural revolution of 6K years ago that carb food became concentrated enough to provide a usable alternative energy source.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #39

It might. It might also mean you have some degree of insulin resistance which is very common and a result of eating SAD. There are very many people on this forum who were previous to keto type 2 diabetic, prediabetic and insulin resistant and are no more. Many people were on diabetic medications and are no more. Yes, it’s fixable!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #40

@240lbfatloss check out this. It’s not either/or. It’s way more complicated than you seem to think: