Can you do keto without coffee? Why not?

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #17

Humm, It’s early and I’m rambling. Need more :coffee:

@FrankoBear Seems like you like poking a sleeping giant. Or in this case an awake giant. I’m open to the upside and downside.

But I’ve given up drinking wine to a point that I actually rather not but do occasionally have a glass and then wonder why I did that. Sounds like an addiction.

So I have an addiction to coffee and tea and look forward to it almost every day. I do go for a few days without it every 3 months or so.

I’ve cut plant consumption back but not given it up. I try to avoid spinach and minimize significantly how much plant material I consume. But dang, I still love my coffee.

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(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

On these forums, one learns two very important lessons about coffee:

  • Coffee is helpful on keto, because it stimulates ketogenesis and fatty acid metabolism.
  • Coffee should be avoided at all costs on keto, because it inhibits ketogenesis and fatty acid metabolism.

Make of these what you will.

Note, however, that the word used is always “coffee,” never “tea” or “caffeine,” so the chemical(s) involved in the relevant effect of coffee (whatever that be) is/are something other than caffeine.

Since I regularly drink about a pot of coffee a day and lost sixty pounds with no effort on my part since starting keto, I don’t see that coffee has a deleterious effect. BTW, I’ve gone caffeine-free several times over the years, and after about two weeks, the addictive effects (mostly headache and irritability) vanish.

#19

On the 2KD podcast with Amber o’Hearn she mentioned the interaction she’s seen with coffee drinkers, regular and decaf, affecting the lipid profile/LDL best I remember.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

And that’s the reason that Dave Feldman requests people not have coffee before the blood draw, if they want to report their lipid numbers to him.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #21

Maybe, but it works great :slight_smile: In fact, I pretty much do this every Sunday morning when I wake up in my car, and cant make “my version” of my morning coffee… 22oz, double strength, premium blend, with a good shot of heavy cream, 8 drops of sucralose, a tsp on 2X vanilla extract, and a 1/2tsn of maple extract. (out of maple right now though… Urggg.

Drinking this right now, and WoW ! I love this every morning :slight_smile:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #22

I think coffee like any other stimulant affects different folks differently. How’s that for the obvious statement of the day?

Am I addicted to water because I drink it every day? If I stopped drinking water I’d suffer severe withdrawal symptoms and in fact would die within 3-4 days. But, you counter, coffee is not necessary to maintain life, whereas water is. True. If I stop drinking my daily coffee I’m not going to die, although a lot of other people report that they feel like they soon will. I do not experience any symptoms of anything if I don’t drink my coffee daily. I’d miss it because I like my keto coffee. I’ve expended lots of time and effort experimenting to get it where it is today. But I don’t need it like an addict needs a fix. And to describe it as such is just nonsensical.

So my answer to the OP is “sure”.

Question from first timer
(Empress of the Unexpected) #23

I used to be a coffee fiend, now just a cup in the morning with my neighbor to be sociable. I have heard all about the health benefits of coffee. However, I have started measuring and my heart rate goes up from 75 to 90 after one cup. When I had my atrial septal defect repaired, my cardiologist cautioned against coffee.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #24

Sounds like you are being prudent.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #25

I should cut out the last cup. Maybe decaf? The tannins in tea give me a stomach ache. Was really enjoying cutting the coffee with HWC but ended up drinking the cream out of the container. :rofl:

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #26

Okay that is very enjoyable. I’ve given un HWC because I think it contributed to my stall. N=1

(Empress of the Unexpected) #27

It was a replacement for my beloved whole milk. But I have found I can drink a glass of whole milk daily and still stay in ketosis, per the blood strips. Not my strict keto 1.8, but around .5, which apparently still counts.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #28

I only have one cup each morning too, only my cup is 22oz, double strength :wink: I use about the same amount of grounds for a normal pot.

#29

This Charlton Heston? voiced allusion has been haunting my daytime lucid dreaming.

#30

The bumper sticker on a truck in the 1980’s “Red Dawn.”

Wolverines!

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #31

I’m in this whack situation where I cannot do without coffee or tea but it seems like hypercarnivore has made it impossible for me to have a lot of the stuff. What a day.

#32

If you’re eating “carnivore” to try for some tweaking on a keto diet, then drinking roasted coffee plant seeds is probably OK.

But if you are going carnivore as an elimination diet, to eliminate anti-nutrients from plant foods, or immune reactant plant bits, then a sad, slow but gentle ‘goodbye’ to coffee may be needed (via the de-caf door to ease the withdrawals).

#33

The ketogenic diet can be high in a plant anti-nutrient known as oxalate.

Cooking, ‘activating’ (as the hippies call it), fermenting, pre-digesting food technology has long helped humans cope with the potential toxins in plant foods such as lectins.

Unfortunately oxalates are resilient and resist a lot of that detoxification preparation.

This thread needs some clarification on coffee in regard to oxalates.

Still, there are two solid scientific reasons to believe that coffee is very low in oxalate. The first is that all reputable testing to date has demonstrated that coffee is low in oxalate . The second is the real-world experience of low-oxalate dieters who have maintained a daily coffee habit with health benefits and without signs of oxalate-related symptoms. Other beverages, including hot chocolate, black tea, and green tea, have consistently been found to be high in oxalate and tend to trigger oxalate-related effects (the effects are variable—e.g. night-time irritable bladder)… I have a suspicion that the rumor about coffee being high oxalate originated in confusing reports on the oxalate content of instant coffee powder, which led to misinterpretation of the results. Instant coffee is indeed very high if you eat a whole cup of the undiluted powder.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/oxalates-little-razor-blades-in-your-bod/80882

Done with carnivore
#34

I suspect I would do better without coffee. I can tell my stress levels are better without. It’s just really hard to stay off coffee.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #35

I call it “carnivoroid” or “hypercarnivore” for a reason. I don’t feel the need to eliminate.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #36

Me every morning: oh crap, I’m awake. OH! I can have coffee!

Yes, I could live without it, but why would I??