Calories vs Keto

(Angelique Jury) #29

Ok. Coming back to my original question… in total i hv eaten just under 2000 calories today and hv been extremely good in terms of keeping within my macros. (See attachment)
Should i worry about how high those calories are?
Note: had cashews as a snack on the run and i think that was a bad idea !

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(Sharon A Peters) #30

Helewisa, thank you for your kind comment. The more deeply I read into keto, metabolism, hormones, etc., the more I try to frame it to myself in ‘kitchen chemistry’ terms … to make sure I’ve gotten it (it sometimes takes a loooong time). I’m delighted it made some sense.

(Sharon A Peters) #31

Angelique, it occurs to me that there is yet another reason that CICO doesn’t count: if, as a new or a research-minded-turn-yourself-into-a-science-project type (Hello!), you are setting, monitoring, and minding your macros, you do not need to worry about computing or tracking your total calories. And that is because carbohydrates contribute 4 kCal per gram of weight, protein contributes 4 kCal per gram of weight, and fat contributes 9 kCal per gram of weight. So, if you eat 50g protein, that’s 50X4 = 200 kCal of protein; 20g carbs, that’s 20X4 = 80 kCal of carbs; and 80g fat, that’s 80X9 = 720 kCal of fat, for a total of 200 + 80 + 720 = 1,100 kCal total. By setting macros and tracking your consumption against them - say 20g carbs, but you only eat 15g, then it’s 15X4 = 60, for example - you can easily figure what the total calorie consumption has been. When this became obvious to me, it underscored the point that the mathematical approach of calories in-calories out works beautifully looking from the outside in, but when the metabolism is looking from the inside out, it don’t mean diddly. If you want to track calories, set your macros to guide your eating and then just multiply out the grams of each macronutrient eaten by its kcal value per gram, and add them up. Easy-peasy, but really just math homework rather than anything meaningful. The healing is in the macros.

(Lonnie Hedley) #32

In short, I think what you’re saying is macros > calories.

(Angelique Jury) #33

@theabroma that makes so much sense. I’m definitely going to see how that works. :blush::blush::blush:

(Dan Dan) #34

Keto is about being ‘Fat Adapted’ using ‘Fat as fuel’ rather than ‘Carbs’ ergo the ‘Low Carb High Fat’. Calories only matter if its the wrong kind.

Examples of wrong calories:

  1. Restricting Calories (‘Low Calorie’) - Keto is not ‘Calorie Restricted’. Eat until you are ‘Satiated’

  2. Restricting Fat - Keto uses ‘Fat as Fuel’. ‘High Dietary Fat’ is necessary to become ‘Fat Adapted’.

  3. High Carbs - Keto is ‘Low Net Carb’. 'High Dietary Carbs will delay or prevent ‘Fat adaptation’.

  4. Lean Protein - Keto is ‘Moderate Protein’. Lean meat is high in Protein and low in fat. ‘Fatty Meat is Moderate in Protein and Moderate to High in Fat’ and preferable.

Keep it Simple :smile:

“May the Force (fat adaption) be with you”

IF/EF Keto WOE is Self-Discovery :wink:

Good luck and much success in your journey in IF/EF Keto WOE :grin:

(Angelique Jury) #35

And am i correct in saying fibre in food should be subtracted from total carbs to get my net?
Also i was told today that i mustn’t hv soild fats… only liquid. Any truth to this?

(Lonnie Hedley) #36

Net carbs = total carb - fiber - sugar alcohols (if any)

Solid vs liquid fat? Like fat on meat? No, eat that fat.

(Angelique Jury) #37

Solid fat like on meat, butters, creams, etc

(Rob) #38

The fundamental issue when starting Keto is to get fat adapted and get off carbs and those cravings (which may never fully go away) :pensive:

To do that you should eat all the calories your body wants while your metabolic changes are happening. I found that I had to eat above my BMR and snack in the beginning to avoid the hunger pangs etc. but once I was fat adapted (4 weeks later) then the appetite subsided and I would eat half my BMR in one or 2 meals a day while my body used its fat reserves and weight fell off.

Let the changes happen and don’t worry about calories (except for NOT restricting - no need for starvation responses :grin:).

(Lonnie Hedley) #39

Yeah, eat that fat. Maybe just see fat eat fat? Mmm, fat!

(Dan Dan) #40

Yes your correct :smile:

Not true :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Solid fat is very good :bacon: :heart_eyes:

(Angelique Jury) #41

Thank you everyone for the great help and advise! U really hv all helped me a lot. I hope this journey is a positive one for me :blush::blush:

(Sharon A Peters) #42

Well, it should be immediately clear, so yes. You eat 10g of carbs or proteins, each of which have 4 kCal per gram, so you’ve just eaten 40 calories (90 in the case of fat - 9 kCal/g). When I began keto - and, having been a chef and cooking teacher, I’ve worked with not only the calorie issues but with weight, rather than volume measurements in the kitchen, especially in the baking and pastry kitchen - it still took me a bit to get my head wrapped around the new way of looking at and understanding calories. I took the statement that “calories don’t count” a face value, and I guess I embraced the ‘new’ concept of calculating and meeting - and managing - macros to fill the void left by tossing out the calorie concept (and yes, they still matter, but in a very different way - if you daily quaff a liter or two of olive oil on top of your macros, you will gain weight from that true excess of energy - but that’s another discussion). So when I hear folks who are new or newish to keto and who are hanging on through the important, but steep and long learning/understanding curve, it seems helpful to refocus them on the whys and wherefores of macros, the importance of food composition on the plate vs. counting plate calories, and to ease them away from the only point of reference most of us have ever had: the lordly calorie. But, if for some reason a person wants to know what their daily energy intake is in kCals, hey … all they have to do is multiply kCal per gram of the macronutrient times the grams of X food they have or will eat.

Keto involves a whole lot of rethinking and questioning everything we’ve learned about nutrition and metabolism. It’s just sorta like learning to write with your non-dominant hand: you can do it, but it takes some time and practice.

(Troy) #43

Cashews are “ ok”.
I personally no longer eat them

However, you’ve will get better macros ( lower net carbs ) and nutrients w pecans , macadamia nuts, perhaps walnuts or almonds

(Justin Jordan) #44

For some people.

I am perfectly capable of maintaining a 285 pound body eating zero carb for months. I know this because I did. I can easily consume several pounds of meat at a sitting, and did so.

Getting down to 235 took paying attention to my intake.

(Which I didn’t find onerous, but I know many do)

(Angelique Jury) #45

Thank you @theabroma
Lots of very helpful info and understanding there and yes…i did try yesterday and it puts a lot of the calories of each macro i eat into context. The fat obviously being highest calorie group… but that’s what we want right? :grin:

(Consensus is Politics) #46

Interesting. During that time, what was your eating habit? Did you keep your eating window as small as possible? Or were you eating more smaller meals spread out? Were you having any snacks or sweet drinks? And when?

(Consensus is Politics) #47

I have never heard that before. “Only liquid fats”:face_with_monocle:

I suppose as with all “diets” of which I do not include Keto as a diet. Strictly speaking the way you eat is your diet, but I refer to the term in pop speak. When someone says ‘dieting’. To me, that is always a set amount of time, usually until a certain goal is met. I think of Keto as not an ends to a mean, but as the mean itself. I eat in the Keto style, much as my wife eats in the Korean style. It’s a genre, not a temporal eating anomaly.

So I’m curious as to the context of being told liquid fats? Possibly someone pushing or evangelizing a Keto food template of someone’s design to market, and copyright, and trademark, and sell books, and then sue if someone else copies what they set up. It’s not unusual. There are companies out there that do this very type of thing with all sorts of products. There are people that make a living at, not kidding here, patent sitting. They look for a patent, acquire it. Sit on it and watch to see who violates it and sues them. There is a judge in Texas that likes to take these cases and helps them along. I’m pretty sure he in some how involved in the process. I get all kinds of BS alarms going off whenever I pick up on such things.

(Sharon A Peters) #48

It’s important that the fats you eat be quality fats - xv olive oil, butter from grass-fed cows, organic coconut oil, avocado oil, etc., and the fats from grass-fed and/or properly raised animals, and the fats from fatty wild-caught fish like salmon, mackerel, sardines, etc. I cannot imagine a vinaigrette dressing made from beef tallow - yuck! The point is to not go wild with fat because it packs a lot of energy and it is easy to overdo it. You do not have to max out your fat macros, but neither should you grossly undershoot it. The sweet spot is going to be particular to you and your keto goals. And as for fibrous carbs - some people count total carbs, but many, if not most, count net carbs (total carbs minus fiber carbs). Again, it depends on your own current sensitivity to carbs. And remember, your body can only do so much repair on any given day, so cutting back severely on fats will not make your body go into every-higher fat-burning overdrive, and overeating protein will not make your body build more and better tissues with the excess. Think of the macros as a baseline that you will need to adjust to, and once keto is established, you can begin to make tweaks to customize it to your current metabolic health. As you progress, it is a good idea to re-calculate macros based on weight, changes in activity level, etc.