Broth on a fast?

(Ashley Haddock) #1

After listening to the most recent 2 Keto Dudes podcast I decided to try a 3 day fast starting today (after a couple of higher than normal calorie days). I have heard mixed messages on broth during a fast because of the protein in it. I don’t have bone broth made so it would be something like bullion or pre-made store broth. Do these things have enough protein in them to mess up an extended fast? Thanks for any help. I do have both of Jason Fung’s books here that I am going to read but thought someone could answer this. :slight_smile:

(betsy.rome) #2

Store-made broth, who knows what’s in it.
Bullion cubes are mostly salt + msg, hydrolyzed protein (whatever that is…).
You’re better off with just Himalayan salt in water if you didn’t make bone broth in advance. Heat the water & put a pat of grass-fed butter in it, or coconut oil, to “feed” your fast.
What I do is buy a rotisserie chicken and a low-priced package of chicken parts (drumsticks, wings, whatever’s on sale) and throw them into a pot with a couple tablespoons ACV and some good salt, water to the top. Add veggies like celery, shallots if you like. An hour later you have broth, after several hours you have bone broth. Or put in your slow cooker on low overnight. Great thing to come home to after work, BTW.

When done, strain the meat & bones from the broth. Use tupperware, muffin tins or ice cube trays to freeze. I like to reuse the black tray the rotisserie chicken came in by freezing broth in it. Once frozen, remove from molds and put in ziplock bags for easy access when fasting or cooking.

(Ashley Haddock) #3

Yeah I had the same thought about the broth but I’ve read Dr. Phinney uses them in a pinch so figured they couldn’t be too bad. I do think I have a chicken in the fridge I can use, if it’s still good.

But I’m still not sure if this will mess up a fast. I know fats would help if I get hungry. I was more wanting something I could have at mealtimes with my family so it doesn’t seem so weird to them. They’re not keto and I don’t want to completely freak them out. Lol

@Fiorella Thoughts?

#4

I don’t find using soup cubes being wrong at all. Yes, they contain msg, but so does food cooked at home develop substantial quantity of msg. There are other varieties of soup cubes without msg…but, I personally don’t bother, because that chemical doesn’t seem to bother me at all.

But, do look out for soup cubes or concentrates with sugar in them, though. I saw a few “instant pho” broth concentrates that come in little packets being sold at the grocery store that contained a substantial amount of sugar (about 10 grams sugar in the packet). Stay away from those.

Dr Phinney is correct, I think, endorsing the use of soup cubes. They are cheap, travel easy, lots of salt content, do not contain sugar, and easy to prepare in a pinch.

Taking advantage of the convenience of soup cubes, preparing a quick broth, so that you can sit down with the family, and join them at the dinner table for family-bonding conversation is the best thing you could do really (I think).

(Ashley Haddock) #5

Thanks for the info! I did recently discover the bullion I was using contains sugar (grrr) so I am going to go after work and look for some without. And also check the chicken to see if I can make some regular broth before it goes bad.

I never thought I’d be so excited to NOT eat. LOL!

#6

You can also make a quick meat broth, with just a bit of ground meat (ground beef, turkey, chicken, pork…etc). Add some fat to a sauce pan, fry ground meat until it is crispy brown, developing a crust as well in sauce pan, and then deglaze pan with water, rub clean the bottom of sauce pan with wooden spoon. Fill sauce pan with water, add salt and pepper to taste, and some spices as well as desired (like a blend of thyme, rosemary, parsley, etc…just make sure spices don’t contain sugar fillers), and let boil another 15 minutes or so. This quick and easy broth doesn’t contain the gelatin from bone broth, but, the caramelization of ground meat infuses a bit of flavour, and salt/spices does the rest of the work. You will need to strain out the ground meat and not eat that, as it will break your fast…you can use it to make taco filling, casseroles, frittata, salad toppings, or whatever…feed it to someone else.

(Ashley Haddock) #7

Thanks!

#8

That’s… not how you make bone broth. While it is true that bone broth cooks for longer (about 48-72 hours usually, so actually a lot longer), the cooking time isn’t what makes it bone broth, the contents do (mostly bones/bone marrow, a little bit of meat). You’ve just described longer cooked broth. Granted, cooking longer probably helps pull additional nutrients out of the meat and bones that are there, so it might get you closer to the nutrients of bone broth (though at different ratios, since you’re taking more meat nutrients than bone nutrients, which are still good, just different).

If you listen to the 2keto dudes podcast with Jason Fung where they talk about fasting, he mentions there that “Broth Fasts” really aren’t full fasts due to the protein, and seemed to regard them as further away from a fast than a fat fast (which he also says is not a full fast, but gives many of the benefits of it so is probably worth doing anyway). It may still yield some benefits, just know it’s not the same as a real fast as you will get an insulin reaction from the protein.

(Ashley Haddock) #9

Yes, I remembered that part and it is part of what spurred my question about if the cubes have enough protein to disrupt a fast.

#10

So, I suppose that depends on how reliable you think the “10 calories per hour” idea for fasting is. If it is reliable, I suppose you could get 2 grams of protein (and only 2 grams of protein with nothing else) an hour in the form of broth. You’d then have to check how much protein is in the broth you are drinking (some have more than others, or may contain some carbs as well), and limit it to below that threshold.

There are some that would define a fast as strictly 0 calories, but I don’t know of much that has definitively studied the difference.

#11

Djindy

Not sure what you mean by that is not how to make a bone broth. Yes, many hours are required to break down bones and dissolve into the broth. This is why some people prefer to use instant pot or pressure cookers, as it speeds up the dissolution process. Otherwise, why bother going through the trouble.

The gelatin that comes with the bone broth is a protein in itself (mix of glycine, alanine and other amino acids). It promotes an insulinogenic effect. Soup cubes, without presence of gelatin (or other proteins) have the umami and salty tastes, which can help avoid the insulinogenic effect.

#12

What I was saying is the difference between Broth and Bone Broth is not simply cooking the same stuff longer.
Cooking the broth longer gives you longer cooked broth, not bone broth. As I mentioned before, yes, bone broth does take longer to cook than broth (significantly, actually) but there are more differences than just the cooking time. The contents of the broth also make a difference (Bone broth is called bone broth because it has a much higher ratio of Bones to meat, as does Stock though Bone broth has an even higher ratio of bones to meat than stock does as well).

#13

When you boil bones, you dissolve gelatin. Gelatine is a mixture of amino acids, mostly glycine (I.e. It’s a protein).

The typical soup cubes you find in the store don’t contain gelatin (if you reconstitute them in water, the broth stays liquid). This is the evidence of lack of gelatin.

So, not sure where you would find protein in a soup cube that doesn’t contain gelatin. A soup cube can contain 1 gram or less of protein, if they use real broth extract, but I can’t see how one gram protein in several cups of re constituted broth break a fast.

(Ashley Haddock) #14

I went to the store last night to look for bullion cubes without sugar and they all had sugar. Anyone know of any brands without?

Also, decided to hold off on the fast until next week for a couple of reasons. I’d still like to find these in preparation.

(Becky Searls) #15

Following as I would love a rec of sugarless bullion cubes too!

(Ashley Haddock) #16

I found this one (obviously not cubes) but it’s $25. :confused:

https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Girl-Sugar-Free-Bouillon/dp/B00MX1GGJI

#17

I’m with @Fiorella here @betsy.rome. Make broth how you damn well please. I have always just called it stock and it has been a ‘waste not want not’ peasant device that uses the scraps and pulls what you can from every morsel. There are no hard and fast rules. What is it with everything these days that has a set of mythical rules that, if you don’t abide by, you are doing it wrong? Hogwash!

(betsy.rome) #18

I would like to sell you 7 oz of sea salt, garlic powder, spices, onion powder & stevia leaf extract, for 25 bucks. Ah don’ thin’ so.
Besides, why the heck would I want stevia in broth?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #19

Because the modern palate is so accustomed to sweetness that many can’t do without, even in things that are supposed to be savory. We’ve taught entire generations to expect everything to taste sweet.

#20

I have no problem with people making broth that way, I’m just saying what was described is not bone broth.I never said there was anything wrong with the broth described, the only problem was with the label being bone broth. The method simply doesn’t result in bone broth, it results in broth, which is different but not a bad thing.

It’s like if someone makes a poached egg and calls it a hard-boiled egg. Yes, both involved using an egg and cooking it in water, but the result is called a poached egg, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you were trying to make a hard-boiled egg though, that is not what was accomplished, as that involves a different cooking method and has a different result. If you ordered one at a restaurant and got the other, you’d say they got your order wrong.