Blood sugar readings puzzle while extended fasting


(From XL > Medium) #1

Hi everyone,

I started a fast on Jan 1st and I am still on it (just black coffee and water).
When I started, my blood sugar reading was 305. My readings have since been dropping, as I expected them to and I test daily before drinking coffee. But for the past 8 days, my readings have remained at around the same level (130) and also, for 4 straight days, my readings were exactly 130. And my readings this morning was 134.
I don’t know why this would be and so I wanted to see if anyone knows why my readings are like this, or if someone can suggest why this is happening.

Thanks


(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

Why are you fasting for two weeks? I think that’s far beyond optimal. My guess is it’s from your body feeding off itself and a byproduct of breaking down fat and probably muscle at this point. :cowboy_hat_face:


(From XL > Medium) #3

I am fasting as I am because;

A. My blood sugars are too high, and
B. I still need to lose some weight

There is no such thing as optimal fasting.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #4

I see you’ve been here way longer than I have. I’m curious why you had a BG over 300.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #5

I totally disagree on this.


(From XL > Medium) #6

I have been trying to get my health to where I no longer have diabetes, weigh what my body should weigh and have a good relationship with food.
Due to a few things, i have fallen off the wagon food wise many times in the past two years. Its been a struggle.


(From XL > Medium) #7

You can do that, but a fact remains a fact, regardless what you think of it.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #8

Okay, at a certain point fasting becomes the beginning of starvation. When you fast after about 5-7 days your metabolic rate will start to fall. Not consuming protein long term will cause more than therapeutic autophagy. The things to suffer first are hair, nails and optimal metabolic maintenance, minimizing expenditure of your energy on healthy repairs and keeping whatever you can free up as fuel from your body for basic survival of your body. If you don’t think this is sub optional maybe you should study it some.


(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #9

Your body creates glucose via gluconeogenesis. With diabetes, this process may be out of whack and the body creates too much glucose. It’s good that you try to get your bg under control, but not all t2d patients can achieve a reversal. You might require some medication to stop gluconeogenesis (like Metformin, but I’m no doctor). Then go keto for a few months and maybe you can get rid of the Metformin.

Try to analyze what went wrong when you fell of the wagon. Did you eat too much, or not enough? The wrong food? Couldn’t cope with stress? Cravings? Make sure you eat plenty of ketogenic food, that’s the best way to avoid energy based cravings. If the cravings remain, maybe you’re missing a micronutrient like magnesium or potassium. If you fall off the wagon again, shrug it off and jump back on. Cheating for a day or two isn’t good, but if it happens then it happens. I’ve been there, it’s ugly, but it gets easier with time.


(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #10

I wouldn’t recommend to do it on a regular basis, but as a one-time therapeuthic measure… There are clinics that do fasts of 2-4 weeks. But you have to be careful to come back carefully (refeeding syndrome), and for weight loss it’s better to do short fasts, agreed.

The OP just needs to make sure that it’s medically supervised, that’s really important. And I’d add some bone broth immediately to counter the protein and electrolyte depletion.


(From XL > Medium) #11

AFAIK, starvation is different than fasting. When you have fat stores, the body will use those until they are depleted. AFAIK, starvation begins after you burn off all fat stores and the body starts to break down muscle to turn into glucose.

Exacly what will happen and when all this will happen will vary somewhat from person to person, so we can’t actually know what will happen with any one person. In addition, i suspect these bodily processes can be affected with conditions such as diabetes, but we can’t know for sure for any one person.

I am completely alone, don’t have a job, don’t have much money and so I can’t afford doctors or meds and so I am doing the best I can with what resources I can find online. I do have an income but its too high for the low cost/free healthcare programs that are available in my area. The drug manufactures have also denied me free meds. but anyway, meds are toxic to the body so I am not bothered about not taking any.


(From XL > Medium) #12

I often eat too much, even though its the right kind of food. I just like food a lot.
I have often had cravings, which has resulted me falling off the wagon, and getting fast food, pizza, donuts, chocolate, cheese, bread, etc.
I realized two and a bit years ago that I had a food addiction (which was brought home to me after i watched the iThrive series and which opened my eyes, more than they were, about food and what I was doing).
In fall 2017, I lost 57lb in 6 weeks and towards the end of that period, I would see tv ads for various fast food and I noticed that they stopped having the pull that they used to. I thought I had beaten my food addiction.
I have stopped eating animal foods so am only eating lots of veggies, especially leafy greens, tofu, nuts, beans, lentils, seeds and some berries. These have enough micronutrients in them, and I am aware of the various micronutrients I need.

I don’t cheat (a day or tow here and there) but I am mindful of falling of the wagon/binging on the above unhealthy and fake foods. I am trying to re-adjust my lifelong massively overstimulated brain and adulterated palate.


(From XL > Medium) #13

[quote=“Fruno, post:10, topic:96955”]
But you have to be careful to come back carefully (refeeding syndrome)[/quote]

I am aware of this syndrome.

I don’t have access to this as i cab’t afford to pay any “health person”. Even if I could afford it, I have no idea where to find such a person as my area is bereft of health people who know anything about fasting. It uis quite backward. I am on my own, literally.


(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #14

In this case, sorry, but you’ve got to stop fasting. Now. It’s very dangerous to fast unsupervised if you’re a diabetic.

This may be the reason for your cravings. There are some vitamins and minerals that we need and can’t get from plants, like omega-3, vitamin d, vitamin k2. If you are deficient in those you’ll get strong cravings. Plant-based antinutrients like lectins, oxalates and isoflavones can mess up your brain.

Obviously it’s hard to give a remote diagnosis, but I suspect you need to leave out more food. Did you eat anything with sweeteners? They can create massive cravings for some people, and it’s easier to leave them out altogether.

If I understand you correctly and the plant-based diet didn’t work for you, then my suggestion would be to go on a carnivore diet. Eat as much as you like, whenever you like, but only meat, eggs, cheese and milk products that have a 1:10 ratio from carbs to fat (like heavy cream or mascarpone cheese). Try to go 4 weeks and see if your cravings subside. Don’t worry if you’re eating a ton of calories, the main thing is to make the transition.


#15

And it’s a fact too long fasts are dangerous and even fatal.
Optimal fasting makes a sense to me: it’s some quite harmless fasting, with benefits. It’s hard to say when it’s too much, I agree, there is no such thing as “N days are optimal”, not even for a certain person. But “definitely longer than optimal” clearly exists and problems comes typically way, way earlier than becoming slim. And we loses protein too, it starts very early as we need amino acids and we have a very tiny amount available when we stop eating, it’s totally not optimal for many of us, it’s a bit personal, of course but I wouldn’t play with my little muscles. I would need a better reason for a 2-week fasting than losing fat, that’s doable without starving (slowing metabolism, losing a significant amount of muscles, and so on).
I am aware we don’t lose so very much protein in extended fasts if we don’t even have much muscle to begin with, I just don’t think I can afford to lose even a little more than unavoidable. People choose to do very long fasts with success, each to their own as long as they mostly know what they are doing (and have medical help for really long fasts). I understand doing whatever one can, I know someone who simply starved until they become slim (and they never got fat again) because they had no better idea but it’s still not an advisable method. That was clearly starving, not fasting (some people probably would call it low calorie diet but it was intentional starving) but both are harmful at some point. Don’t misunderstand me, I know fasting has benefits and it’s not necessarily starving but it still becomes that after some while. As far as I know, metabolism tends to slow down after a few days. I’m sure it’s not this simple (for example, it matters if we do frequent fasts since ages, there are almost always personal factors in everything) but 2 weeks are long so certain negative effects are bound to happen. Maybe it’s still worth for you, it’s possible but it’s far from ideal according to the definition of our ideal for most of us. And it’s very dangerous for certain people, of course but it’s not the point here.

It’s interesting how different things people can think about long term fasting. Some people say no muscle loss happens until all the extra fat is lost (it’s obviously wrong), some people say no fat loss happen until all not essential muscle is lost (it’s wrong too). The truth is somewhere in-between but the body prefers using fat reserves for energy if it has them galore and there’s is no choice, it’s muscle loss for amino acids. But the exact numbers obviously vary.

You will need a good diet in the end, no matter how you lose your excess fat. If a diet doesn’t work, try something else. I like food too but that’s not a problem as I am a human and I need to eat a lot anyway. Getting satiated is the problem and I am not as controlled as I should when I am hungry. To me, very little carbs seem to be the answer, not simple keto, it changes A LOT! Even overeating, I automatically overeat on almost every woe and I probably quite massively overate for a few decades, I don’t resist temptation, I love food and spend quite a few hours doing something related to food per day. There are worse cases than me but mine is serious enough. But as I lowered carbs and skipped some items I was able to at that point, things automatically got better without using willpower or suffering. It’s great finding a better way of eating that just works without struggle. But we are all different so your method might be something completely different.
(To be clear, I still fall off the wagon sometimes but I come back and it’s not like I eat zillion carbs when I am off keto. My off times gets better and lower-carb too. Some changes happen quickly, others need time. In my case, easily several years but it’s still much better than no progress.)


(From XL > Medium) #16

No, I have long stopped these.


(From XL > Medium) #17

This is not part of my post, but i will reply. I will not go back to eating any animal foods because they are very damaging to our cells and to human health overall. Animals are simply middlemen for nutrition and so we can bypass them and eat real food. Animals do not provide anything we cannot obtain elsewhere.


(From XL > Medium) #18

I want to make the point that only one part of one reply has attempted to answer my question/offer help.
Instead, all the other replies have solely been an attempt to question my choices and to tell me I am wrong, don’t do this, or do that, blah blah blah.

Why? I did not ask for this.

I was unwise to reply to all the off topics replies I did and so I will now stop that.


(Justin Jordan) #19

Honestly, it depends. Once I titrate off Glipizide, I find my blood sugar hover around that range regardless of what I do. Eat keto, fast for three days.

Likewise, when I’ve been off the wagon and get back on, my body follows a weirdly specific pattern of blood sugar decreasing until day ten, when it fairly suddenly drops a lot and then holds steady.

Not sure why.

I would speculate it’s some combination of gluconeogenesis and insulin resistant people not depleting glycogen as quickly.


(From XL > Medium) #20

Thank you