Big Blood Sugar Swings

(buzz) #1

Howdy,

I am familiar with “dawn phenomenon,” when blood sugar rises in the morning.

In fact, I see large blood sugar swings of around 40-50 points in the morning.

In the evenings, my blood sugar is typically around 105-110. This is about three hours into my daily intermittent fast (after my last food for the day).

Then in the morning, usually at 7:00 AM, after having fasted for 12 hours. My blood sugar is fairly consistently around 150.

I guess my question is if this is “normal” and which readings “count?” I don’t think I’ll be satisfied until my highest reading is below 100. Is this realistic?

What might I be doing to exacerbate my blood sugar dawn phenomenon in the mornings?

FYI: I am doing 17/7 intermittent fasting every day. I am also eating ketogenic, never exceeding 20 grams of non fiber carbs per day. I am a self-diagnosed type 2 diabetic, taking no medications whatsoever. I have been eating/fasting like this for four weeks now.

Thank you for sharing your experience and advice on this,

buzz

(Joey) #2

Howdie @buzz

If you’ve been at this keto thing for four weeks, it’s likely still too early to draw many conclusions (concerning diurnal glucose levels) - other than it sounds like you’re on a healthy track by restricting your carbs and narrowing your feeding window.

Putting aside glucose home test results for the moment, may I ask…

1 - What makes you think you are T2D?

2 - How have you been feeling during these 4 weeks? Noticeable changes in hunger, energy, sleep, weight loss, …?

Best wishes :vulcan_salute:

p.s. - At least based on what you’ve shared, it doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything to exacerbate your dawn phenomenon.

(buzz) #3

Joey,

Thanks for responding!

After decades of eating terribly, no regular exercise, putting one some weight, having dry mouth and frequent urination, I knew what was wrong.

I bought a blood glucose meter and a home A1C test kit.

Four weeks ago, my blood sugar measured 336 and my A1C was 11.0.

I started intermittent fasting and eating keto (less than 20 non-fiber grams of carbs a day) again.

The first few days were a little rough, but now I feel well. More consistent energy. With eating under control, I need to start some sort of activity/fitness habit. I’ll start looking into that next.

I’ve been through this before. But I fell off the wagon so to speak, and lost all of my gains. Happy to be back on track.

Just a bit confused by the big swings in blood sugar from morning to evening. Seems like my blood sugar would be higher three hours post meal, rather than at 12 hours post meal. I’ll start fasting again in about four weeks. At least one 40-hour fast per week and see if that makes a difference.

Thank you again for your reply. I guess I’m a tad impatient. I’ll work on that, too!

buzz

(Joey) #4

Based on what you’ve shared, it sure sounds like you’re making a critical turn for the better given your recent steps to address highly elevated glucose levels.

I’ll leave it to those on the forum with better knowledge (and perhaps firsthand experience) with T2D but if not under a knowledgeable doctor’s care, perhaps that’s also an important ingredient in getting the support and monitoring you may need, perhaps with other tangential issues from metabolic syndrome.

Related to getting medical care, it may be that Metformin could be a useful interim component of a well formulated healing path?

(buzz) #5

We’ll see.

If can get my blood sugar down below 100 again consistently, I see no need for medical intervention.

The medical profession, including diabetes specialists, have been treating diabetes incorrectly for decades, so they’d be way down on the list of folks I’d seek help from, if I needed it.

Further, I’m leery of using a crutch for something I can do for myself. Aside from the concern of the quality of pharmaceuticals (https://www.verywellhealth.com/metformin-cancer-5116117) and their side effects, if I can help my body recover without intervention, I feel that’s the best course of action.

Thank you again,

buzz

(Joey) #6

Yeah, I’m of the same mindset. The less our health practitioners practice on us, the better things often turn out. :roll_eyes:

But there’s also a time and a place for some “trained” professional input - whether we accept it or not always remains our call. Meanwhile, always seek out reliable sources to inform your choices and remain humble about how much we don’t really know.

Keep us posted on your progress.

(buzz) #7

Joey,

I should clarify that I do seek wisdom from numerous doctors:

Dr. Joseph Mercola
Dr. Jason Fung
Dr. Peter McCullough
Dr. Robert Malone
Dr. Luc Montagnier
Dr. Ken Berry
Dr. Judy Mikovits
Dr. Eric Berg
Dr. Sten Ekberg

…and other non-doctors like Gary Taubes and Robert Lustig. It is through these folks, that I came to understand many health truths.

There’s still so much to learn!

buzz

#8

Is sleep apnea a possibility?

A while ago, someone on Reddit mentioned they thought they had dawn phenomenon and gotten a CGM. The patterns on the CGM were not compatible with dawn phenomenon. After moving, they got a new doc and…

Right away my new doc ordered tests including a sonogram of my thyroid and parathyroid, and a sleep study. A sleep study? Yes. He explained that if you have apnea, you stop breathing occasionally while you sleep. Your body goes into “panic mode” when it realizes it isn’t getting any oxygen, and releases cortisol, which in turn raises your blood sugar. If you are having apnea episodes throughout the night, it could cause consistently high blood sugars throughout the night.

(Jane) #9

You posted a similar tale in 2019 and said you got your blood sugar under control and read Dr Fung’s books. What happened between then and now?

eta: Welcome back!

(buzz) #10

@OgreZed: Thank you for the suggestion. I don’t believe I ever had sleep apnea. When I’m not eating well/controlling my blood sugar, I would wake up many times at night to urinate, which messed with my sleep significantly. Four weeks back on track now, and my sleep is very good again. I almost always wake well rested, usually waking up on my own after about seven or eight hours of sleep.

@Janie: About two years of abuse, unfortunately. As stated in my original post (and my first reply to @SomeGuy) above, my primary concern now is the significant swings in blood glucose levels between morning and night. I don’t recall it being as significant in the past as what I’m seeing now, and I’m concerned something may be wrong. However, it may just be my impatience. I had an amazing run of about nine months on keto/IF back in the day (as well as other start/stops along the way), and I thought I remembered my numbers falling into line more quickly, but perhaps not. I think @SomeGuy is on the right track with pressing on and seeing when/if the numbers converge. I’m still a believer in Dr. Fung, it’s just putting knowledge into practice has proven to be a struggle for me.

Thank you both for taking the time to reply!

buzz

#11
(buzz) #12

@Fangs: Super interesting. This put my mind at ease. Thank you!

#13

we got ya!!

tons of info on ‘the whys’ of it all out there that our bodies are not responding to big sugar intake anymore, so our ‘true baseline’ of what is going down means a ton to us now, as in ‘we are different’ on this way of life and our bodies are changing back to a true natural reset of what life process should be. We are so warped off truths now on that truly but I am glad it helped!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

You may find these linked studies of interest:

#15

I get it but??? Chronic alcohol consumption

where does this come into play here?

just curious cause I know good info but I got tons of ???buts??? here lol

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

Hey @Fangs why don’t you hit the link - it’s NOT about ‘chronic alcohol consumption’.

#17

I did hit the link and came up with alot alot of vinegar and other crap which is just of course jumbled on what the OP is asking in a very simple form that I see???
why say some plant crap fixes what nature intended as a body heals and is true to life as in its fuctions?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #18

Instead of spouting ideological nonsense, examine the evidence that consuming vinegar appears to lower overall blood glucose. A lot of us in long-term ketosis observe that glucose tends to remain within the ‘normal’ range. Why is that? Is it really ‘normal’? Is glucose still ‘favoured’? If so, why? For example, I’ve been in continuous ketosis for 5+ years. So does GNC continue to pump out glucose when ketones could fill the need - for my brain cells, for example? Would my liver up production of ketones if I drove down overall glucose with vinegar? Would that be desirable? Would it be healthy? Some of us want to know - not just pass it off as ‘plant crap fixes’.

(Bob M) #19

But until there are RCTs with people like us, we’ll never know.

I don’t take drugs (which is what ACV is) to lower my blood sugar. No berberine or derivatives, no ACV, nothing. Why? Because I think the body knows what’s it’s doing.

If you’re concerned about morning blood sugar, I have a simple solution. Eat more carbs. Your higher morning blood sugar will be “solved”.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #20

Sure, we’ll know from our own n=1 experiments. I’d like to know that my personal experiences are applicable to others - but really, I want to optimize my own health and if I turn out to be a unicorn - I’ll take it.