Autophagy


(Wendy Peterson) #1

If you are a sugar burner, it can take up to (or more than) 24 hours to see autophagy. if you are a fat burner, it could be 16-18 hours for autophagy. How long do you need to stay in autophagy to make a real health difference? Jason Fung mentions that bone broth will stop autophagy due to the amount of protein in it. Does this apply to adding collagen to coffee in the morning as well?


Autaphagy How Long
(Chris) #2

Most likely. Where did you get those times from? There’s mouse studies going on now for fasting autophagy, and they’re saying MICE need 48 hours to even make it into a state of autophagy, so then they are estimating humans about double that 72-96 hours I believe. But yes, collagen will probably prevent it. We’re not 100% sure on any of the science with autophagy since it is so difficult to observe in humans.


(Wendy Peterson) #3

Dr. Fung webcast


(VLC.MD) #4

LCHF -> Keto -> IF -> Fast.
Try a 3 day fast and do some great Autophagy.


(Erin Macfarland ) #5

Well I guess I’ll never experience the full effect of autophagy because there’s no way in hell I’ll fast that long lol!


(Chris) #6

Well, it’s possible resistance training can speed it up. Again, science is cloudy.


(Chris) #7

Worth a watch.


(Erin Macfarland ) #8

Cool! Thank you! When I started keto several years ago and then became ill with anorexia I never fasted longer than 20 hours or so but I am quite certain I experienced autophagy because my skin tone greatly improved which I know is a sign of the protein recycling. I was very, very lean at that point and was definitely catabolizng muscle tissue as well as whatever protein was available. I reached 6% body fat so I had no energy stores left to speak as far as fat is concerned. I think you are right, activity level as well as body fat percentage has a bearing on how long it takes to start benefiting from autophagy. In my case when I was that lean it was actually quite harmful.


(Jena) #9

I am still unsure on the frequency of a 3-5 day water fast for Autophagy after being fat-adapted; with enough bf to sustain and not cause issues; is it the faster’s personal preference based on monitoring your body’s response and well being? In one of the “Obesity Podcast” possible the episode 16 - “Fat Adapted Exercise” there was reference made that the patient was prescribed a 5 day fast weekly.


(Ethan) #10

IDM has said many of their patients do 5:2 fasting!


(Allie) #11

I’ve wondered about the autophagy thing a lot as Dr Fung said, in the Fasting Talk podcast, that it takes five days for a sugar burner to get to the point where the good things like this happen to their bodies… but this was because they spent the first three days getting into ketosis, so if you’re already fat adapted, does that mean it can happen with two day fasts? I know there’s no real answer but it’s been on my mind.


(Ethan) #12

Sadly, there is very little known about the autophagy process, what triggers it, what blocks it, how long it lasts, etc.


(Allie) #13

And some say it just happens naturally without any sort of fasting too. Well I’ll just keep doing my thing and see what happens. I do quite like the idea of regenerating all the cells in my body as I’m sure some of them are tired and worn out…


(Ethan) #14

No way to know, but we can try a lot of things! To some extent, we know its continuous. For example, it’s well proven that our skin cells die and are replaced. We know that approximately 10% of our fat cells die and are replaced each year.


(Jena) #15

I agree with your last sentence - what type of fasting do you do?


#16

Somewhere on this very message board there is a thread that claims that fat supplementation during EF will not interrupt autophagy. To that end I did have a bone broth with some butter on day 2 of my 3 day fast during February. In other words I made it about 48 hours straight up. Was that sufficient for autophagy?


#17

From what I’ve heard from Jason Fung and Megan Ramos, if you are fasting for autophagy as your main goal you should consume nothing except water and salt. We don’t really know if black coffee, tea, or a small amount of fat will inhibit autophagy so to be safe it’s best to stick with water. Bone broth almost certainly stops autophagy due to the protein.

My personal opinion is fix the biggest problems first. If you are trying to fix insulin resistance then fast for that reason and don’t worry as much about autophagy until later. In a perfect world we’d all be at our goal weight and only then do a one week water only fast per year for disease prevention but that’s easier said than done. The truth of the matter is we don’t have a clue if even something as minor as using soap or brushing ones teeth can inhibit autophagy. My guess is that dry fasting is the only way to go into full autophagy, anything else including water and salt will still get you there but probably to a lesser extent. Just my theory.


Fasting for Health Benefits Already Lean
(KCKO, KCFO) #18

Protein and carbs cause the Mtor pathway to shut down. Butter would have some protein, tiny amount but some. I don’t think plain water will effect the autophagy. There is a video on IDM website that talks about this.


#19

Most all foods contain protein, fat and carbs if I’m not mistaken. As for the water thing you could be right but we don’t have the science yet, for example can brushing your teeth cause insulin secretion? Or a CPR which results in insulin secretion?

Can you link that video please? I think I’ve seen it before but I can’t recall.


(Allie) #20

@Goodman whatever I feel like at the time :blush: Sometimes IF with a fasting window of at least 16 hours but go as long as I can, often ends up as OMAD. Other times extended 48 or 72 hours - 72 is the longest so far. It keeps my body guessing as I don’t even know what schedule I’ll be doing :joy: