Are you overconsuming fat on Keto? - Dr. Eric Westman

#1

This is one of the very first comments I made on this forum…and I was raked over the coals for it, because the article dared to mention fat.

I finally feel vindicated! :grin:
(of course I think we generally agree on this now)

(Bob M) #2

Fat is a tricky topic. I prefer to eat lower fat foods, though I do like some higher fat foods. I also modify my fat intake, sometimes lower, sometimes higher. I try to avoid PUFAs and even MUFAs, but it’s tough. At some point, I have to eat pork and chicken.

(Allie) #3

I keep thinking I’ll reduce fats and see how I go… but like my coffees too much.

(Bob M) #4

I think the reality of fat lies somewhere between those who believe that “too much fat is bad, because we aren’t burning any of our own fat” and “we should eat high protein, low fat, and eating ‘too much’ fat leads to instant weight gain” (Ted Naiman’s P:E theory). And I bet body type and perhaps genetics and who knows what else influences this. I bet a young, male lifter is going to be able to eat a low fat, high protein diet with no issues. (Heck, I remember eating nothing but tuna for days when I was in my teens and lifting all the time.) A person like me, with 20+ years of damage to themselves? A post-menopausal woman? Maybe they need something different.

(Jane Srygley) #5

I think maybe when people think “low fat” they think about like 20% of calories…? I can’t eat unlimited fat because um… I WILL! I will sit and eat a whole package of cream cheese, drink a whole 8 oz carton of whipping cream… for real, I have a problem!

I have been able to make my diet a lot more sane by emphasizing protein. According to my MyDiary app (not THE most accurate, but decent), I am currently eating about 10% carbs, 35% protein and 55% fat by calories. I eat around 1800 calories per day. Ish. With fasting one full day per week and one OMAD, I’m able to lose weight this way… But I sure do have to be careful!

(Bob M) #6

I read “Keto Clarity” by Jimmy Moore, where he advocated high fat. I started eating way more fat. Similar to what you found, I found that it wasn’t filling.

But it’s tricky, because there’s a theory that certain types of saturated fat (the long chain variety) are satiating, but other fats might not be. So, it’s difficult to know without some type of fat analysis what “high fat” even means.

Though I think that cream cheese and whipping cream should qualify as high saturated fat. But maybe there’s something other than fat in these that leads to overeating?

I still find for me that lower fat proteins tend to be more filling than higher fat ones. Thus, I eat ham if I’m still hungry and not pepperoni, even though ham has higher carbs.

(Jane Srygley) #7

Yep same here! I definitely feel full after a ribeye though :wink:

(Bob M) #8

Well, ribeyes…those are different. :wink:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

I wonder if people who don’t find fat satiating might need more protein than they are getting. The paper that determined that we need, on average, 0.6 g/kg of protein a day included a graph that showed nitrogen loss all over the place. Some people lost very little, some lost a lot. The 0.6 g/kg average is the average of nitrogen loss over all study participants, converted into equivalent protein need, but it is very much an average of a wide range of data points. The government recommendation of 0.8 g/kg is intended to catch most of those who need more protein, but I suspect it doesn’t go far enough.

So the moral of the story is, if you don’t find that more fat satisfies you, try more protein. And vice versa.

#10

There is an individual factor too (as almost always). I need to avoid added fat and cream (unless I need more energy I comfortably can get from my normal food), basically anything that is not inside my good protein sources - but I guess fat tissue works too, I just couldn’t test that extensively but it seems so. Rendered fat doesn’t work at all, it’s only good to add calories, I can eat 1000 kcal extra without any effect on my satiation, at least for a day, I never did that longer term, my goal being very different… I had enough massively overeating days on high-carb, thank you, my keto ones should be single ones.
It seems my body doesn’t care if it’s protein or “right” fat as long as I got enough of both and my calories are right, I get nicely satiated either way. A low-fat high-protein day works (unless the fat is too low I guess but it’s pretty impossible for me to do) and an adequate protein very high-fat day works too, it’s just too fatty to my tastes, I only can seriously overpower the protein with fat if I use my not satiating fats.
And I can eat very high protein and very high fat at the same time without feeling too satiated if I use enough from the wrong fat. Probably not repetitively and maybe not on carnivore but I did it on keto even without an active day. I did it on an active day following lower-cal days too, it wasn’t surprising at all. It’s rare as I know to avoid the “wrong” fats unless I just don’t care or I am hungry and I only have a jar of chocolate on me (not like it helps much but after some proper albeit little meal its effect isn’t exactly zero).
And I heard different things from others. Some people find all fat satiating, protein not so satiating and so on. In my case, my remaining plant carbs seriously interfered with satiation too while many people aren’t that “sensitive” to carbs in vegetables.

Surely the kind of meat or whatever protein source we use matters a lot too. Some of us feel chicken is just not as satiating as it should be considering its macros (thighs with skin so not too lean). Pork and ruminants work way better, feels much more substantial, satiating.
But I will make more experiments in my first longer carnivore trial in November :slight_smile: It will be interesting.

(Joey) #11

One distinction to consider (it may have been noted already; admittedly I haven’t read every word of this entire thread) is that some folks are drawn to keto-style eating to lose weight (i.e., body fat), some are drawn to reduce inflammation (i.e., to feel better), and/or some want to improve their heart health and remain unconvinced by the prevailing cholesterol trope (i.e., these are the cardiac conscious eaters).

Different objectives may warrant different kinds of fats and overall food consumption are best suited to accomplish one’s goals.

I, for one, never entered the keto domain in an effort to lose weight - although I lost 25 lbs. It was to start feeling better and to entice my wife to follow suit. As a LMHR, I often wonder if different fat eating profiles would produce different results - but that may not be what those who are looking to shed tonnage might want to eat. :thinking:

(Robin) #12

have you earned your Sage badge on here yet?

#13

Nah, I think I’m more in line for the class clown badge.

#14

I like lower fat proteins, tuna, chicken breast, lean ground beef, ham, crispy bacon etc. I like to add my fat, with cheese, cream cheese, butter, cook in lard and bacon grease. But these fats are self limiting for me just like the lower fat proteins also are self limiting. I start feeling nauseous and gag if I’m trying to eat too much of the combo. Combined I probably have 3 ounces of lean protein with about a tablespoon or two of added fat. After that it makes me feel sick to try and eat more at one sitting. I’m currently doing TMAD.

I don’t have any trouble consuming several ounces of heavy cream with sweetener drops and vanilla extract so I just don’t have it.

(Robin) #15

You just described my dream meal, sister!

(Jane Srygley) #16

I know I did! I was scared too eat “too much” protein for a long time and I was ALWAYS hungry! Now I eat around 160 g of protein per day (or more) including at least 1/2 lb of beef and I have some control, meaning I actually feel FULL after eating. I need fat also in order to be satiated, though. My fat comes in around 100g per day or a bit more.

#17

I’m all three. But for vanity’s sake and the fact I’m becoming caregiver to both parents at once, I really need to be healthier as fast as possible to be in a position to do all of what they can’t anymore. My biggest regret is that I was an enthusiastic proponent of the non-fat nineties where huge plates of spaghetti with just tomato sauce and Snackwell cookies were my daily bread.

(Joey) #18

Same here. Who knew?!

Thought I was being healthy and deprived myself of all those things I now love to eat. Go figure.

(Allie) #19

Well I’ve definitely been doing better since I stopped limiting protein and fat never stopped me being hungry. Now I don’t limit either fat or protein and have no idea how many calories I’m consuming either, or even how many carbs anymore… but it’s working so all good.

(Roberta Worley) #20

@dlc96_darren Last time I checked, we still live in America. Then again, it does state the home of the free and the brave. Sometimes you have to pick your battles wisely because toes may feel stepped upon when unintentionally or not.

Fat. FAT. FAAAATTT. So, shoot me. I said it. I meant it. Now what.

But seriously. I’ll say it again. If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything!

One more thing. Each of our bodies are unique unto our individual self. If eating, overeating, not eating, eating lower, whatever, you’ve got to be comfortable being you. If you’re acting as though you’re someone else, then you are double parking. Please. Don’t. Do. That.

Thank you.