April 2022 IF/EF Chat Thread (All welcome)


#21

Animals don’t even force-feed themselves either I guess (they may gorge on food when they need the fat but probably even then they feel the pull so it’s no force)…
Starvation is pretty normal for many though. There are times when it’s normal. Extreme case is when the polar bear mom eats nothing for months while feeding her typically 2 cubs with lots of super fatty milk… They are my heros!

But animals often have famine, it’s life for them. Some don’t have it, some simply would die of hunger during the night (some critters simply can’t afford a longer sleep, hummingbirds go into torpor).
But for many animals, there are plentiful and there are hard times. We humans had lots of famine so we evolved to be able to handle that. We don’t depend on dietary carbs because we had to survive times when we had about none…

IF happened naturally to me. Period. I did it on high-carb too. I did OMAD on high-carb at some point, with conscious effort though, it’s so super easy on high-carb! And so very hard on carnivore… But I will make it happen.

I easily eat 4-5 times on IF though… It’s far from ideal from me but I need to eat enough and sometimes on carnivore my mealsize gets small.


#22

The vast majority of us here are doing Keto in addition to Intermittent or Extended fasting. As to why we choose to fast, that is because it is a tool that is working for us. If you don’t need to fast to achieve your goals, great. I am happy for you.

But, please keep in mind that some of us are here and choosing to do what we are doing because we have a need to. I may be mistaking, but the spirit of these threads are to support each other in our fasting process, not to debate the validity or need. I think that would be better served elsewhere.


#23

For you. Not for everyone.
I eat way too much if I eat every day, under normal circumstances. If I could fast longer, I would do it. I would go for 3 days, probably as that’s short but still helps. Not very often, I am a patient one and slow fat-loss is perfection to me. Keto never was enough for anything for me except fat adaptation but I already have it…

I heard fasting helps with loose skin (I don’t have that but maybe I will have one day)… And zillion other things. So as long as it’s comfortable, I will do it. Anyway, it’s fun, convenient and I wanna be able to say I could do it.
But I won’t go hungry or resist temptation. Other people aren’t this choosy and as long as they don’t harm themselves, it’s fine.


(Ronnie) #24

I agree.


(Ronnie) #25

I’m sorry, I never meant to cause a confliction…again (for me) I don’t see the point.

That’s because of my own experience, but of course, I know that everyone is different…just as I am.
:slight_smile:


#26

Okay but why to say it?
I don’t see the point in trying to lose fat, get more energy or getting any noticeable benefits by mere keto in my case as it never would happen…
But I know I am me and others have results with mere keto without lots of extra strictness.

But if you was just curious… I understand that and I hope I could help with some explanation, others who actually do longer fasts surely could help more but there are articles galore as well.
Some of it is speculations though… Autophagy seems to be a somewhat mystical thing…? But one may try fasting and if it does great things without sacrifice (or with sacrifice but it’s worth it), why not?


(Ronnie) #27

Perhaps you answered your own question.

All I’m saying is, if we can all reach our goals through gradual progression…why would anyone want to put themselves through (extensive, not IF) starvation?

It doesn’t make any sense to me. But I understand that everyone is different, and will have different opinions…before i get attacked.

:slight_smile:


#28

Not an attack at all. In my case, I have fatty liver disease to the point of Fibrosis. My GE recommended fasting to force my liver to burn that fat as much as possible. Again, a tool for different goals.


(Ronnie) #29

True. Different strokes for different folks.

I had NAFLD, T2, hypertension, gout, asthma, and sleep apnoea. At 44 yrs old.
Plus I had to hold my breath in to tie my own shoe laces, which was the worst.

At 46, I feel like I could run a marathon (hyperbole!)., but very close.
I feel very fit now. and I haven’t fasted.
But here, everyone is different friend, and I acknowledge that

:-).


#30

Keto has not reduced my inflammatory pain. I’m wondering if fasting might give me some relief. Problem is whenever I try, it feels impossible. I’m too hungry. I think my hunger might have more to do with a messed up GI tract than real hunger. I often eat to settle a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I have zero diagnoses of any GI pathology. However, I took antibiotics for two years to treat a chronic Lyme infection which might have upset my microbiome. I take probiotics which help with intestinal function but only when I take them. The effects are not lasting.

Anyone have tips for incorporating fasting into my lifestyle?


(Ronnie) #31

There could well be benefits.

Just for me (my metabolic problems and weight problems) were addressed through normal keto and gradual intermittent fasting (which was sub conscious, tbh.), That’s all. No ezxensive fasting or hunger.

But that was just me!

Others will be different!!!


#32

If you are getting hungry, that is a sign that you are probably not fully fat adapted. I can’t speak for anyone else that fasts, but I don’t experience hunger very often.

Maybe do a few weeks of a more carnivore type approach before you attempt to fast again. That may help with becoming fully fat adapted and help with the hunger.


#33

It’s possible but I’ve been mostly in ketosis for over two years. Lately I stray from a 20g carbs limit, but my keto mojo always registers ketones. They are typically 0.4 although they have dropped to 0.3 on occasion lately. I do think there is something going on in my gut that is messing with hunger signals and I need to figure that out if I am to successfully fast!


#34

But we can’t all reach out goals through gradual progression.
And it’s not starvation at all.

Why would I give up my goals and force feed myself, possibly to cause overeating and problems? I don’t get it.
:upside_down_face:

Fasting is bliss to me :smiley: Right and enjoyable, even the only possible thing sometimes. Until I feel I need food.


#35

Hunger has nothing to do with fat adaptation in my case, the type of hunger is different but hunger itself… That’s all about what and how much I ate previously.

My fasting abilities are way worse than they were on high-carb while not fat adapted (though it was just a very occasional automatic thing) but it’s normal as I had really big meals on high-carb due to carbs not being satiating for me. I needed big meals to get satiated at all but they lasted long. I never had this “getting hungry soon again” until carnivore (breakfast did it too but morning is the worst possible awake time for me to eat, that doesn’t count, I stopped it age ago).

If I want to fast longer, I need a biggish satiating meal. Even for OMAD. It’s super easy with carbs, no way I will get hungry in a day if I make sure I eat as much as I comfortably can for my last meal.
A big meal is easy on keto too but carnivore is tricky… I probably could trigger some OMAD days with eating fat galore, it doesn’t satiate me well but that is useful for OMAD, I can eat a big meal that wise. I just don’t know if it make my satiation long lasting but probably. I should dare to eat really fatty on OMAD… I am not afraid of fat, per se but I definitely don’t eat it galore without care like on high-carb. I have to keep myself back all the time and it’s still not enough.

Did I say I am very determined about OMAD now? I actually will put in some serious efforts. I mean, I will do OMAD and that’s it. I lost patience. Unless I suffer, of course but why would I? OMAD is totally for me. It will solve so many problems. I expect the occasional TMAD day, that’s fine.
Even my better, earlier sleep is helping, 8 hours after my first (and hopefully last) meal I will be already sleeping! And a proper sized OMAD meal always last for that long. Sometimes for 12 hours but then it’s over if I am awake… As far as I can tell, it wasn’t that often that I still was awake at that time, I very rarely eat before 2pm and usually not even then.

So, fasting. I am not a good person to answer as it either happens to me or not… But I know big satiating meal is the key for me. I don’t think fat adaptation changed anything, my woe is more important but especially the size of my meals. But now I don’t get those sharp attention demanding hunger I had before fat adaptation (not always, thankfully, it was very annoying, I just HAD TO EAT ASAP and suffer until then… but often. so when I got fat adaptation and nothing else noticeable from keto, I still was very thankful). Some of my hunger signs don’t urge me to eat, they are adorable. Others are soft but annoying so I eat but I don’t suffer much until I don’t… So soft hunger is great. For a while. Then it MAY pass, that’s cool… If not, I eat as it totally interferes with my focus.
But I rarely have hunger. I get dizziness, weakness and other signs that tells me my body wants food. It’s not an electrolyte problem, I feel I need food (and the passing time is a good hint anyway, my body has its schedule. not a super fixed thing, sometimes I feel the need to eat at 2pm and sometimes not even at 6pm but my perfect satiation usually goes away around 2pm and I can expect urges to eat from that time on).

So. If I really wanted a longer fast, I would wait until I am hungry/ready enough to eat a big, satiating meal. A little willpower or something to wait for long enough (unneeded if I am lucky and my body is fine until late), good planning, good food but part of it is not satiating so I could eat more. Maybe even tiny break before I eat more but the meal must be big.
And then I did everything I could for my meal and should be able to wait a day. And then more… The beginning is the second day is where some hardship may happen but if I am lucky and my last meal was really big and satiating long term, it is doable. If my body is on board, great, I only need to fight with my mind and habits. It’s so ODD to skip a day! Something in me is against that but determination helps.
And the next day my body is a bit far from the idea of eating… But lunchtime decides if I can do more or have to be content with 48 hours. I may get hungry at 45 (it depends when I had my last meal as I get hungry according to the time, mostly. I am an afternoon eater, I was born like this, apparently, it’s not something that changes) but it’s fine, I can wait for 3 mere hours when well-fasted… And busy. And want the number 48 :slight_smile: I did it only once though.

I only did almost 5 days once. Way before I went low-carb. It was very easy and I probably was a bit hungry first, don’t remember but I was VERY curious and had no problems. I surely was well-fed.
And when I reached 3 days or something… It was just normal not to eat. My brain thought about food but my body wanted nothing. Then on the 4th day the complete lack of sodium intake became a fun problem according to my hypothesis :smiley: Cheapest drunk feeling ever, it was interesting and surreal to take my long walks. And on the end of the 5th day I got hungry and ate. A bite. I just couldn’t eat, my body was confused, it desired about no kinds of food but I was hungry a bit… How my body can forget about eating so quickly IDK :smiley: The next day I could eat normal. Or more normal, it probably still wasn’t my usual huge food intake but I ate normal food.

Sorry, I had a trip down memory lane… Hopefully my mind got all nostalgic and excited and won’t pester me about eating food when I am not hungry at all but I haven’t eaten in the last, like, 26 hours. If I go over that, I probably will reach 40-44 as well. Depends on the time of my last meal. Afternoon eater. Except when it’s night (before bed).


#36

We broke our latest 36 hour fast this morning, will do another 36 hour fast starting tonight. I am already feeling great, wife is along for the ride this time. I am thinking about doing a 5 day fast soon. That’s a horse of a different color, wife will just observe that one lol.

Some folks swear by the carnivore routine. I did it maybe a year ago for about 6 weeks. I felt fantastic, but I’m not sure it actually did anything physically beyond regular keto LCHF. I’m certainly not opposed to other people trying it, and many of my meals are just “meat meals” anyway. I don’t think I will do it long term again b/c I like to grill an onion with my steak, or whatever.

So after this weekend we will re-assess. We may do an intervening week of just keto eating or we may sign up for another round of 36 hour fasts, we will see how my better half is feeling at that point. In the past, IF/EF really impacted my waistline much more so than just weight loss on the scale. We will see what happens.


(Bob M) #37

I made it about 35.5 hours. Had a pretty good body weight training this morning, though I cut it a bit short (only 1 hour,15 minutes). I wanted to get to work a bit earlier.

I think fasting can be a double-edged sword. I think some is beneficial, but it is possible to do too much. If you find yourself getting overly cold, that could be an issue.

I’m doing one 36 hour fast per week right now, and we’ll see if I can do one next week. For me to do a fast, I need one day off from exercising before the day I fast. Otherwise, I haven’t been able to fast the day after I exercised. I used to, 5+ years ago, but now I find this very difficult to do.

I do believe there are benefits to 24+ hour fasting you cannot get by eating. For instance, your insulin will be driven low, to an extent you cannot get while eating. There are also hormonal things happening, which do not happen while eating. You’re also affecting your bacteria in a way that you cannot while eating.


(Bob M) #38

You should be attacked, because you’re attacking. If you don’t want to do IF or EF, then why come to a thread to specifically complain that you don’t need fasting? Particularly when it appears you’ve never done it, therefore have no idea whether it would be a benefit or not?

And if you have done it, and you did not think it was a benefit (and believe me, there are those who advocate against it), that doesn’t mean you should come here and tell us we don’t need it. Let us judge for ourselves what we do or don’t need.


#39

I do carnivore-ish myself (when I don’t go farther)… I eat mostly animals but being strict is a bad deal for me, I get nothing but lose variety and freedom. But I change, I typically don’t desire plants at all and I am only interested in a few vegetables, rarely and in tiny amounts. Onion is great but way too sweet to me so I use it very sparingly, mostly for stews.

Not being close to carnivore brings carbs and that brings chaos. Going extremely low with net plant carbs make small wonders, it’s as a drastic change as high-carb -> low-carb was. Keto was just like low-carb except fat adaptation.

Right now I have some relaxed days before my as carni as comfortably possible, the same for OMAD and no coffee May :smiley:
I like eating lunch. I wake up so early, so much time passes and my SO comes home, I have just cooked food, am not satiated anymore… But I just can’t eat an OMAD sized meal easily then. So today I go for TMAD. Yesterday’s OMAD doesn’t help now as my meal was so small. But my first OMAD meal typically triggers another OMAD day so I only need to focus sometimes and things just go smoothly for a while (as soon as I don’t get tempted but I am careful and determined now. I mean will be in May).
I have nothing against 3 hour long eating windows with a modest intake either, after all :wink: I just hate those 5 meal days (still IF but not good. way too much fat, protein, calories, inconvenience and hunger. possibly carbs too if I get bored of my food).

I never ever ever ever was cold while fasting (or starving but that was a single 11 day period in my life). I don’t know why, it’s odd. I was starving since a week, living in a 8C/46F house and I just wasn’t hungry or cold. Probably my hedonism but where was it when I wanted to fast without some huge determination? Or when my room had ice and 12C? Though I understand, it was a mental thing.

But fasting never caused me being cold either. Hunger/weakness comes earlier. maybe I have too much fat for being cold? Maybe it’s some individual thing like me having overheated hands in winter (when walking outside. it’s ice cold in my heated room).

Maybe I will try to join you guys in your 36 hour fasts in May. But it will be 45-48 for me.

Yes. This and more.
REPEATING the “I don’t see the point” thing.
Saying yes, sure, people are different while still not changing the stance…
Calling the beneficial FASTING we love here STARVING.
Very rude.


#40

I do a bunch of OMAD, in fact that is probably my default. I almost feel stuffed when I do two or more meals in a day.