APRIL 2019 IF/EF Chat ALL WELCOME

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #442

Herb,

What about 60 to 72 hr fasts?

(KCKO, KCFO) #443

Eric, make sure you don’t fast for a couple of days before that visit to dr. Fast for 12-14 hrs. and maybe no coffee for the 3 days before as well. Some have no reaction to coffee, others do, be safe and just avoid it for a few days.

Hope you get good results on your reports.

(Herb Martin) #444

I would try to stretch out ANY fast.

Think about YOUR GOALS.

If you want weight loss then the longer you can do a 1/4, a 1/2, 3/4 fast the more value you derive. Similarly perhaps for cell clean up even autophagy may be occurring if you are strongly ketogenic.

Again, my rule is, “you can always eat more, but it’s hard to eat less once you swallow it.”

This gives you the freedom to STOP eating, put the food in the fridge and know you can still have it in a couple of hours, or even 15 minutes if you really need or want it.

(Unless you live in a dorm or with teenagers or others who will steal your food. :slight_smile: )

(Herb Martin) #445

Please confirm that you understand elevation only works with GRAVITY so the ANKLE MUST BE HIGHEST, not “as high” or lower than the knee.

And if your pillow stack sags, you must RAISE it.

Seriously, even ortho surgeons and physical therapists who all know this forget and almost never emphasize it.

This is one of the biggest mistakes made in joint replacement recovery.

(Tamela Robinette) #446

I understand completely. I have had this tendonitis for years and when it gets this bad all I can do is elevate it. NSAIDs, cortisone, ice all do nothing. Moist heat helps a little but rest and elevation usually get it under control in a few days.

(Herb Martin) #447

I had arthritis/tendonitis in both shoulders for years and was receiving steroid shots for three years in both shoulders every 4 months like clockwork.

What fixed that was the carnivore diet, and I had already tried fully ketogenic dieting.

I had no expectation, but my “steroid time was up” and my shoulders had already twinged a time or two which previously indicated shots would be needed within the month.

From the day I started carnivore they NEVER hurt spontaneously or from simple movements again (e.g., reach up to get something from a shelf.)

They are NOT fully repaired and still quite stiff, but I have a meridian stretcher (and some other folks) working on fixing that – and there is every indication that now the inflammation is gone it will be doable, even at 66 years old.

Carnivore is an anti-inflammatory diet. So is fasting since both are (massive) elimination diets.

However, we can’t fast permanently so perhaps trying 30-60 days of carnivore to fasting to carnivore would be an interesting experiment.

I am a permissive carnivore so I eat “anything animal” but it is my plan to try both removing dairy and at some point trying 30 days of “beef, water, & salt only” to determine what other changes occur.

(I was on the verge of that when I found fasting so this may be better or perhaps I’ll just start dropping from fasting back to beef only carnivore after April.)

(Tamela Robinette) #448

I’ve slowly been kinda transitioning to carnivore anyway? Hmmmm…maybe I should give it a try. I can do anything for 30 days.

(Herb Martin) #449

That is pretty much how I did it. High meat keto and “I can do anything for 30 days.” :slight_smile:

Looks like I might even be able to fast for 30 days, halfway there today. :wink:

I looked at Jordan Peterson in 2018 in online videos and on news programs, then compared him to the man who’s videos from the University of Toronto I’d been watching from 4 years earlier (before he became famous.)

I literally did not believe it was the same man. Checked the name, “Yep, Jordan B Peterson”, double checked.

Same guy. Only he’s trim (ok, he lost weight) and he LOOKS HEALTHY, not like some slightly pudgy dough-face old brother.

Four years LATER he looked 10 YEARS YOUNGER.

So when he was on Joe Rogan and explained the same thing: “I figured anything for 30 days” he had me.

Difference was that with keto I was “always planning to exit or to finish” but with Carnivore I only counted the days as a science experiment and had no desire to exit.

Never have had a plan to stop or a desire to do so.

It is paradoxically markedly easier to maintain than keto with more choices. (I don’t fully understand this but for me it is simply true.)

#450

I’m still waffling around about which days I will fast this week. I’m going to try fasting today, even though I’m only working off one eating day, which hasn’t been successful for me in the past, but I’m going to keep trying, since I’d like to be able to do some weeks with ADF.

I had planned on joining the Zorn fast, but then realized I have to go to a fancy fundraiser brunch on Saturday, which is right in the middle. I’ll be fine if I fast Friday and break at the brunch, but don’t want to do multiple days and break there. I’d have to break by Friday dinner. Maybe I’ll try for 48 hours from after dinner Wednesday.

So, I’m winging it. :grin:

(Mame) #451

Happy Monday to all those fasting and those who needed to give it a miss! I had a good night’s sleep so that always helps.

i am about 19 hours in, planning on going until tomorrow lunch or dinner…42 hours or so.

It’s been a bit of a struggle this afternoon, emotional/mental hunger due to work stress is squawking at me big time. Even though I am still physically full from dinner last night! So far so good, doing a lot of tapping to help with the stress. Will be meditating later as well.

take care all.

(Liz ) #452

Broke my fast at 61 1/2 hours. Good enough for me! I’ll eat for another eeek then I’m thinking of trying ADF for the first time.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #453

Thanks. No labs this visit. But he may ask for some later.

#454

I’m eating all this eeek too. :smiley: - Doing OMAD myself this week, but I actually tried ADF a while back but it didn’t seem to fit well with me? I kept wanting to turn those skip days into longer EF’s and think I felt like I was eating just to break instead of wanting to stop. … Seems I enjoy more just doing 3 to 5 day Fast and feed well between? But I am trying to throw some 2 days here and there though.

(Herb Martin) #455

Now I am really in trouble, I found a Judo/Jiu-Jitsu gym very near my house so I have 2 boxing gyms and Judo (and it’s all affordable.)

Just have to build a schedule that works and won’t kill me.

Carol rejoined the fast and now has finished Day #hba1c

I am starting Day #16 and she’s on Day #2 – what a champ.

(Carol) #456

Sorry, no idea. I broke bones in my foot last year and after sitting for months gained 20lbs. It was before keto and might have been due to my afternoon cocktail which was the highlight of my day and I refused to give up. I am commiserating with you and hoping you improve soon

Okay, so these are both bad but a raccoon .under my bathtub would freak me out for days/weeks!

Even though I do a half fast refeed day, I still get this feeling. I think it’s why I love the fasting feeling.

@Herb_Martin, yep, it’s an individual thing. I just want to make sure I’m getting some good nutrition also. I don’t think my extra fluff has a lot of good nutrients. :slight_smile: Your time fasting is very impressive!

So, this morning I was feeling good and my devil brain and I reached a compromise. I fasted today but will pass on the Zorn fast this month. I shall end this fast at about 160 hours. I’m please with that and actually looking forward to eating. :yum: :yum:

(Liz ) #457

Lol “eeek!” I guess I’m afraid of eating :wink: I just heard Megan Ramos say 3 shorter fasts seemed to work for weight loss. What I’m doing now (60-90 hours fasted a week all in one go) is not. Not sure I’ll like it either or how disruptive it will be.

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #458

Checking in at 40 hours. Yesterday was easy and I was hardly hungry at all. I’m still retaining water like a camel :dromedary_camel:, not sure what that is about. No coffee yesterday, just water, green tea and herbal tea.

Last year I wasn’t able to prevent a female from nesting under my tub and it sucked for months. Things are quite when the babies are born in May but by July it gets noisy, and there is NOTHING like a baby raccoon freaking out because her mom is taking too long getting back to the nest. I live on a wetland and we’ve tried a bunch of things to keep the raccoons from under the buildings but they outsmart us at every turn.

I wouldn’t overthink this. When Megan says that frequent shorter fasts “work”, that might just mean that her clients are happy doing it that way. If you are happy with the longer fasts, then do that. If it’s working for you, then it’s working for you - and that’s all you need to know.

(Liz ) #459

I hear you, it’s not working for me. I need to switch it up!

I hope if you figure out how to stop retaining water you’ll share the secret!!

(Herb Martin) #460

If you want weight loss my recommendation is to stay as deeply ketogenic as you are able.

At least 1.5 and upwards from 2-3 or higher if you are fasting or can manage it.

Use fasts as desired to elevate ketones, then when you drop from the fast eat 0-carb and return to the fast if your ketones are beginning to drop out of ketosis and you can’t keep them there while eating.

It’s really that simple.

Add exercise to enhance, and for its other effects.

16th day of this fast (now my longest). Best GKI so far at 0.48

Glucose 62 (nice, not lowest) & Ketones 7.1 (excellent, ties my best)

Weight still holding. Go figure. (With those numbers and my body changing it’s clear that I’m losing adipose tissue. Showing 27 lbs to go as of today – this jumps around a bit due to inaccuracies in body fat percent.)

I’ve pretty much decided to do Judo/Jiu-Jitsu. Beautiful facility, wonderful mats, active 12 camera video system to allow review, many classes for one all-inclusive price.

And even though I’ll be a rank beginner white belt at Judo* the instructor seems to be interested in (separately) learning the principle-based methods I have invented for knife disarming.

(I teach pretty much anyone how to take a knife from a larger, stronger attacker and I want to give this work to someone before I’m too old to train at all.)

An embarrassment of riches actually.

  • Judo: I have studied it a little bit but was never very good at the style of throws judo offers. (Aikido, Systema, Amok all have throws and takedowns). This judo instructor says he can teach me and that they’ve concentrated on the techniques that are more likely to work.
(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #461

Last I heard when I was a member of IDM they recommended 2 x 48 hrs or 1 x 72 hr fast a week for weight loss. However, my personal opinion is that “changing it up” is really important. In order to keep your BMR up you have to keep your body guessing.