Another Carnivore Thread


no it isn’t that, what I am referring to is the food your carbs come from, which is why people say ‘all carbs are not created equal’ in that if you eat carbs from protein source like liver,eggs, shrimp…you are NOT consuming low level toxic plant material which works against your body. So the small carbs we do eat are not carrying bad extra baggage food which in turn lets your body heal and rebalance internally back to a more healthy state and those few carbs eaten in animal proteins are used by the body easily without having to put repair work into dealing with lousey plant material ingested. That is where I was going with that :slight_smile:

oh yes many track and experiment on carnivore. Nothing wrong with it but when you try to apply too many ‘controls’ on zc you can put yourself into more trouble than good. zc works best not manipulated a bunch. yes some do very well with control etc. and enjoy doing just that. It is a personal choice how to roll forward for each of us

(Sama Hoole) #1867

The Carnivore Code is pretty good, although the paul salad fingers is a little bit of an evangelist and gets way too bogged down in the research. The scientific depth of the book is about as good as you can get.


I don’t know what 30% means (volume? weight? calories? seriously, what people think of when they say such things? it’s even useless for me as measuring with cups) but that’s not the point, 30% is huge either way especially compared to zero (or almost zero, I consider adding spices to meat different from going and eating fruits)…
But 30% plants… I may have done it when I was a vegetarian sometimes (it depends what 30% means)… Or at least when I did vegetarian keto but I always ate very much animal products as they satiated me well.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with carnivore. I don’t get why people want to mislabel their diets but many does it. Like someone desperately wants label themselves as vegetarians or vegans. They refuse to give up meat but they NEED that label for some strange reason. I saw that so many times and I can’t understand them.


yea it is crazy. east 70% of your food as animal and eat 30% whatever the hell you want. fake sweetened desserts, bread, anything…and they are calling that carnivore on Bakers world carnivore tribe site of FB. I had to leave. I got told I didn’t know what carnivore was HAHA–Baker commented like eat 70/30 and you are on your way to carnivore and learn and change etc. and still they took that as eat 70/30 is the carnivore plan…and Baker does nothing on the site to correct this misinformation at all. It is truly sad.

It is crazy the misinformation out there that harms but most reasonable people can figure it out ya know, if you want truths, we find them :slight_smile:


Track nothing. Eat when hungry, until you’re full.

The only reason I can see for tracking anything is for adverse effects.
I’m not a purist. I drink coffee and still enjoy red wine or occasionally distilled spirits.
Having been a big fan of Scotch in the past I briefly got into Bourbon. Not heavy but more of an evening sip kind of thing, much like my wine. Then my sleep went to hell within 2 or 3 weeks. Because my diet is so simple it was easy to see that the only outlier was the Bourbon. Cut the Bourbon and my sleep returned to awesome.

Carnivore is specifically NOT complicated.
In fact it’s the least complicated thing possible: eat meat, repeat. :laughing:


I bought the book and put it down fairly quickly. I think highly of Dr. S but it doesn’t have to be that complicated. That being said, if you’re looking for the science side of things that would probably be the good option.
I did enjoy Dr. Baker’s book and made the mistake of giving it to my brother.


I so agree. It is so hard to make people understand the reasons behind this such simple, honest eating plan. ZC is just that. No track is what I would say 99% of all in zc people do and those 1% are usually newbies still tracking cause it was so engrained…but again, some do love to track LOL

Great post Bob! It sounds like you are doing wonderful…figured out that bit of booze was a culprit. I am like you, we eat so limited to our personal choices we love to eat,…all meat/seafood…so when we introduce anything, and we change in any way, boom, we know the culprit fast LOL Glad you are sleeping better!!`

(Sama Hoole) #1873

So I’m biased towards tracking, but I don’t see much harm in checking macros. It’s a form of troubleshooting. You can change the diet, see what effect that has on sleep, energy, whatever you’re after. Even better, it’s addictive, and encourages digging a little deeper into nutrition.

Obviously if someone’s too neurotic, it might not be a great idea.


it is ok to track but if you change your eating to fit macros you are not doing zc.

zc is eat ALL you need at any time to heal. Heal is so personal to all of us and on an individual timeline and as we do this exact thing…we change as our bodies heal and tell us.

if you ‘control’ this process while it ‘might work for you at your point thru this journey’ it will never apply to others.

so basic is eat all the meat/seafood and good fat ya need at all times your body asks…let time change and body change you…do not force ‘limits and controls’ on this process.

it truly is the science with zc….but while many love to track, I get it, but what are they tracking??? are they eating all they need when they need it and the track falls where it falls or are ‘they controlling’ that track? Controlling the food intake on zc is not what zc is long term about or the true concept behind it.

just a great chat to ‘well…’ chat out LOL


I basically dislike tracking. I am just so used to it, I can’t seem to stop for longer periods of time (but I couldn’t do it every day either). I surely could wean myself off but I am VERY curious still. If I will eat similarly all the time, I will stop but I am curious now. Yesterday I went over 200g fat again with very little food (many calories but not much to eat), yep, egg loaf with the original recipe isn’t my friend though it satiated me well for that meal… I still ate later but at least I didn’t stay at 45g protein, it wouldn’t be a problem for a day but it’s still not my thing… I probably wrote it already here, I like data. I write down how much meat I buy and when, how many eggs I have on Fridays, when my fruit seasons start and end, we have notes about our electricity consumption… Some people are like this.
I definitely won’t track for very long in the future, that’s not life but it amuses me sometimes.
I never track if I overeat nowadays. Too much work. But it’s super easy for my normal days. I ate one small meal today, only a few items… It was easy.
Not like I am able to track my fatty meat so well. Today I ate pork hocks, among others. Some meat, some fat, some tendon, who knows how much of which? :smiley: Doesn’t matter, it’s still good enough for me.
I definitely never let my tracking control my eating. I am very bad at control and I don’t even have targets - except for my calories but in average only, 1500 kcal less or more for a day means not much to me. My fat intake in the last years (when I actually tracked, I probably had stronger days when I didn’t) was between 0 and 254g per day (I never went that high on carnivore but I hadn’t so many carnivore days either, I surely will have interesting days in the future! I want to know those numbers :D). I am fine with both if it’s a single day. My fat intake doesn’t matter, actually, I just can’t afford a ton every day. But I control that with my food choices. There is a reason I minimize my added fat intake since ages. Usually. My over 200g days involve more added fat.

So tracking doesn’t help or control me, I just get some data.
If I want good results, control should mean choosing the right food and the right timing. Things fall into place then. I actually needed tracking while I searched for the right woe to figure out what works, what satiates me… Indeed, carnivore and some personal little rules alone should be enough. But I just like to get my data sometimes. It’s just a personal little thing, not needed, not very helpful… But it’s not harmful. It can be, it depends on the person.
It may be even helpful for others. Why not? We are so very different. But it shouldn’t be our tool to restrict and lose (unless we have zero other ideas and fat-loss is very important. It seems so but I am no expert there for sure. I am a health-conscious hedonist with a good relationship with her body and not eating when hungry is insane to me. my body would get upset anyway and I can’t win there… but it’s very effective for others. poor souls). Some people use it to avoid undereating, I don’t see why that couldn’t happen on carnivore too especially when the body or the mind/body communication doesn’t function properly yet so the one in question has no idea how much to eat.
These may be less frequent on carnivore but it’s not that simple for everyone. I overate in my past and my perception is still skewed. And I can’t follow my hunger and satiation and that’s it, I still eat differently. I am lucky with carnivore where these work better but if I let my not physical feelings influence my eating very much (let? they totally do it), I get problems. Tracking may show these problems.

Another reason I will track: I totally want to try very high protein with less fat and adequate protein with very high fat (with and without using added fat but especially without) for a short while to see what happens :slight_smile: I already experimented with these but I can go farther now :slight_smile: It’s half amusement, half getting know myself better.

I got carried away but it’s an interesting topic for me. I have too much experience with tracking (in vain but nope, it was fun sometimes and I know things about me now. some of them totally changed even after tiny carnivore trials but at least I know how much I changed. I am a bit disappointed I never tracked on high-carb, I just can guess things, very vaguely).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #1876

The reason tracking isn’t necessary on ZC is that when plants are gone you eat protein and fat to satiety. You’re body will tell you how much it wants of those macros. With carbs it’s always easy to eat too many on keto until you know what you’re doing so tracking carbs only is helpful. You should still be learning to read protein and fat satiety signals though on KETO.

The most legitimate thing about tracking is nutrition information but even most of those RDAs are off because the amounts of minerals and vitamins needed changes in ketosis from what you need when you eat crappy carbs from grains and sugar :poop:, and some of them were arbitrary chosen because nutritionists didn’t have a clue how much you actually need so the set amounts that they felt were safe. If it’s just like a personal n=1 science project enjoy your tracking but I wouldn’t eat by the numbers again. Six months of that was enough for me. I only use my app to look up stuff to advise others here on the forum now when they ask “Can I eat this?”.


It’s not that simple for everyone. Some people massively undereat on keto even with carbs. Carbs satiate some people very well. Some people never gets hungry or satiated. Satiation never kept me from eating. Or lack of hunger. Zero appetite. There are other factors. I am lucky with carnivore and I didn’t overeat on keto (40g net carbs and probably up to 100g total, never counted but I ate much fiber and a significant amount of sugar alcohol every day) either… But my food choices matter. I eat differently when I need drastically different amount of energy and I care about eating the right amount, whatever it is, I clearly don’t have a fixed number but I can make an educated guess and my body is always here, guiding me.
Timing may be important too. Or choosing to wait until hunger…
Maybe things get balanced out later but not for everyone as I know… People are able to eat a tiny carnivore(-ish) meal every day for long without wanting to eat more and it’s unhealthy. And people say they can overeat on carnivore using certain dishes.

I probably could at least keep me from losing fat with proper carnivore if I overdid the not satiating fats or if I ate too many times but maybe it’s a good enough diet for my body to balance things out? Whatever, I definitely don’t trust carnivore alone (quite good for me but not perfect alone), I need my additional rules especially that I can’t even do carnivore yet (just staying close is very helpful though). I want to do everything right (or everything I am able to at the moment) and maybe that will be enough.
Timing is VERY important for me. It never ends well if I eat too early (or too late but if I don’t eat too early, this is usually no concern). I only should do that if I get hungry. Temptation is strong but I can avoid that. I only can’t resist it, I got pretty good at avoiding it.

It’s normal that some of us work like this. So many people, I am sure there are way more complicated cases. And for some of us, it’s interesting anyway. It’s part of my general food joy. I can’t get that from eating, that’s too little.


I loved loved loved your post David !!!

Worded so well.

Tracking is great if you worry about carb intake and on zc we have no plant carbs that rack up very fast :slight_smile: Our few carbs we might eat like liver or shrimp is protein wrapped greatness too!

But I am like you…I tracked for a few years. Years that it drove me insane. Track kcals…to always stay at a certain amt…track carbs, stay extremely low…protein/fat…up fat more? now watch kcals rack up too LOL It drove me nuts. I am not one who likes it even for the knowledge or whatever it gives to some ya know.

I would never eat by numbers again also! I liked the way you said that. When I hit zero carb and it is all about eat all the seafood/meat/good animal fats you want daily, don’t track or worry, just DO THE PLAN and let it happen…it was life saving and freeing. So freeing to me. I found me and what suited me so well. I got fab results on nature’s timeline and evolved thru the journey of zc. Listen to your body and give it what it wants at all time. I live by that zc guideline :slight_smile:

It truly is this simple…But I agree, the underlying factors of everyone, their time on their healthy eating journey and more comes into play. Our journeys will vary, that is for sure. So many ‘control’ every morsel that goes into their mouth that they easily under eat etc. on Keto, LC, or whatever plans…and it is rare but some do it on zero carb and that is why we stress, and over stress, do not do this on zc. Eat. Eat all you need when ya need it and holy cow that scares the hell out of many. This freedom to eat/indulge/go against ‘dieting baggage’ is hard for many to ever fathom. On plan when one starts zc you can eat huge, then less, then huge again, then less LOL We follow the body and what it asks from us. Best way in life but of course to heal internally and follow natural physical signals from our bodies is super important, but again, we are individuals and our time line for healing and changes on plan will be very personal for each of us. That is why chatting about our zc when we are new to this plan is important and very comforting when someone is told it is OK to eat a lot. Learns about adaption in zc and more from people with experiences. Time on this plan is key. We can all starve our bodies down the scale, everyone can do that. But on zc we never limit, we eat as needed and change while doing it with positive benefits. We evolve with our zc plans.

No one on zc says, omg I should not have eaten that 1lb. of bacon after all the food I did eat today LOL cause it put me over ‘my kcal limit’ for the day. If we want a lb. of bacon and feel hungry we eat it and don’t look back or give it a negative thought attached to it. One plus to zc, we are not ever saddened or disillusioned that we ate food today or the amt of it we ate :slight_smile: Gosh I love zc LOL

great chatting this stuff out!


Shawn Bakers site sucks rocks. World Carnivore Tribe on facebook. decided to check and it has been a long time and this is it:
who wants this and it seems good:

beef fizz

2 cans beef stock
1 can ginger ale soda
2 tablespoons lemon

WTH? I said hell no in a post and person writes back…oh diet soda is used and I am like……….NO…

I tell ya the stupid info out there on carnivore/zc is truly disgusting fueled by a guru type so called carnivore that allows his site to be super polluted…oh well, it is what it is HAHA

but it got my fur up :slight_smile: ok onto my life and screw Baker’s useless no good site…I feel so bad for those who do come for real info and get this mess tho :slight_smile: if this was the ONLY idiocy of life then hey we would be well above, but as we know, the world is going down the toilet day by day for tons of reasons, I guess we smile thru it best we can? ugh


But some people DOESN’T FEEL they need anything. You tell them eat when hungry and they won’t eat for days because they feel no hunger, no weekness, no urge to eat!
Or the opposite when someone eats a ton and don’t stop.
It’s not simple for everyone. Some people have no proper communication with their bodies… They better eat according to numbers as they will ruin themselves without that.
This is extreme, tracking may be useful in less severe cases when one undereats under normal circumstances. I have very okay body signs but even my body can be tricked temporarily. I choose a different style and I eat way more than using another. My macros and my knowledge tells me if I need some tweaking (I think I am over that, I know how to eat now but I may change). Yesterday I had small numbers so I do TMAD today before everything goes downhill… It’s easy and natural to undereat right now but it’s not good for me. I would be okay with a multiple day fast, that should work but low-calorie is problematic.
I don’t know how others decide they need food and when and what and how much but it’s NOT simple to decide for everyone. Sometimes our knowledge and urges contradict themselves. It’s WAY easier for me now but it’s trickier for others.

Another thought. It is normal that even my pitiful tiny carni trials changed my life that much? It’s like the huge, drastic changes after fat adaptation, it just wasn’t that sudden. Satiation comes easy now. Even carbs can’t make me hungry anymore as they did for decades. And my sweetness perception (or how should I call how sweet I feel things) changed too surprisingly, I don’t get why. It was pretty stable since years, my first low-carb years changed it quite drastically and then it stayed the same, keto did nothing to it. But it’s very different regarding different things, some items feels way more sweet now (like yogurt. I actually only tried kefir as I never eat yogurt, not even once in 1-2 years like I did it with kefir but they must be similar) and others changed nothing. I actually wouldn’t mind a sweeter heavy cream as I use it in desserts (coffee with cream is dessert to me too) but nope :smiley:


and ya hit it right there. ZC heals this but it takes big TIME for some. Stay on plan and eat or do not eat as you need…as one does this simple and most easy thing, eat animal products only…we change. And our bodies have enough stored fat for survival while we ‘don’t eat’ and we might get super exhausted and ‘go thru this adaption/healing change’ and this is all normal.

thing is people WILL NOT give the time required to change. One symptom…I am not eating too much so I feel weak etc. and tired and more and think………I can’t survive thru this and bale. OK, then they didn’t go all in and DEAL with what it takes to heal and change.

I get what you are saying absolutely but time on this plan without fail is key and something many will not do cause that ‘one trouble’ of any kind thru adapting they bail and freak and think omg, zc is not right for me when it is doing the exact thing it needs to do yet one won’t ever go past that comfort point of true healing.

and you said: But it’s very different regarding different things, some items feels way more sweet now

of course this is normal…as we go lower and eat less sweet, any sweet stands out big time. I can taste a grain of sugar a mile away now HAHA but heavy cream naturally can be very sweet for many IF THEY are full on zero carb eater. You eat other things, the sweetness of any foods will be varied…you go all in zero carb longer term and you know sweet the minute ya taste it.

it is one of those games, all in means big change, playing on the fringes shows certain things to us thru the years of eating better and it all falls on where ya wanna land in your total eating lifestyle plan for life.

a zc person’s eating and anyone eating anything other than zc will never be the same. It can’t and won’t. It is so simple yet you gotta wanna go here for science/beliefs/theory/being a meat hound and loving it and more to handle this big massive elimination menu which will make ya or break ya :slight_smile: You make it or not and that individual person has to figure out where they stand on it.


having a small war on Shawn’s carnivore site in that they said I should allow others to eat sugar if they want.


I tell ya…I said back that no one obvy understands what carnivore is on this site for those responding and if one wants zero carb/carnivore there are better sites that support this way of life and now they are shaming me again HAHA

I tell ya LOL

but I will bow out before they go psycho on me which they are one step from doing :slight_smile:

(Scott) #1883

Over four months Carnivore now and all is well. For fathers day I received a Carnivore Club gift box and a “meat bouquet” so I guess my kids are onboard. Still need to get my blood work done as a status check.



admin. agreed with me in a new thread they made. said no posts about adding sugar soda or more about recipes that include sugar/etc. Wow I got actually agreed with from this site LOL

but still people are beating me up on the other thread.
too darn funny and drop I will…cause you all know…nothing good comes from going too far in this crap as usual :slight_smile: darn win in my eyes for zc tho LOL

(bulkbiker) #1885

Was it Travis?