No I’m saying that the degree of adaption even though your in nutritional full fat adaption… going to 0 carbs may alter enough to be notably different than somone eating 20-25 carbs
Ok I see what you’re saying in regards to degree on a scale. But I just don’t think carnivore requires a greater degree of fat adaption than a ketogenic diet. My body knows how to use fat for fuel. I don’t see how reducing my carb intake from 20 g to 0 g requires enhanced fat utilization when I burn through carbs extremely fast and am already ‘fully’ fat adapted. Keto diet is the based on the principal of using fat for fuel. Carnivore is a type of ketogenic diet. Not trying to be argumentative… but I don’t see the logic here.
While I have no proof, I agree with you from my logical side. I also have to wonder about the small amount of carbs that are consumed as carnivore such as in eggs. It seems logical to me that if there are levels of adaption, the line is not so fine as to be that close in carb intake. 10 / 20 / even 30 would not define a level of fat adapted??
Yeah I don’t know how noticeable it would be either but removing all the remaining carbs/sweetners just may be a notably feel different phase that is being attributed to fat adaption as well…don’t know but Phinney did say its based on the degree of carb restriction so maybe it does go further…
yeah I think if there is a scale of degree to fat adaption logically its slightly different all the way along that scale
I don’t know… if I’m in ketosis all the time and am still consuming carbs from eggs, shellfish, and dairy, I don’t see how I would need a greater degree of fat adaption eating this way. But I guess I will find out the longer I stay on carnivore.
I would think what defines levels of fat adaption has to do with the amount of time you’re in ketosis and how ‘trained’ your mitochondria are at using fat for fuel. Is that time really lengthier for a carb intake of 10 vs 30 g? It seems like too fine of a line to me.
I also agree with that. So now we have 2 variables that affect adaption. Another reason that it seems questionable to define a line as tightly as 0 carnivore vs 20 keto. Could be a reason for a roundy round discussion about it lol.
Ultimately at the end of the day your burning fat is it like vechiles that burn different lvls of octanes but all still burn petrol… i think whats most important is that you are happy and content and its working for you…for some thats keto some its carnivore some its somewhere in between…but if its working and you can stick to it that’s winning in my book…
What started this conversation is the issues I’m having transitioning to carnivore. Fangs suggested it was because of a lack of fat adaption. I do understand that there is a lot going on with oxalate dumping, digestive changes, etc… but just don’t think it is related to fat adaption–as I’m “fully” fat adapted I plan on sticking it out until at least Sept, so I will see how I adapt and if I get even more efficient at burning fat for fuel.
I’d think that is prob your body still adapting to having to process more protein and fat although in saying that saturated fat just taking out oils like olive coconut and advacado is prob a huge change to the body even though it might seem slight to us…for me going over to almost all protein has an adaption each time I do it which is always constipation…i hate it but I’m protein first carbs last even I eat so 99 percent of the time there is no room for veges not cos I’m trying to not eat them lol…so my fats have to be added in/on cooked in or bacon or I’d prob miss them too lol…
I gave carnivore 6 months and could not get the gut to settle down and I was keto for 1 1/2 years before trying it. I finally gave up and went back to what had worked before. I might try again after giving it some time but for now I will stick with my brussel sprouts, asparagus and cauliflower side dishes.
Good luck on your attempt and I hope you achieve your goal.
Yeah I think this is a big part of it.
At least these are all low oxalate!
wow wonderful chat on the board.
Azi you are getting where I am coming from LOL
I don’t write out some stuff well sometimes to get the points across I am trying to make HAHA thanks for clarifying more for me on what I was saying.
Also one has to remember the degrees of your ‘fully’ fat adaption will be tied to any carb consumption and of course our other lifestyle choices like thru does one smoke cigars, cigs, vape or does one drink alot more on this plan and other stuff obvy…big pic of it all for each of us and personal to each of us…but still make our plans work for us kinda thing. Plus as we eliminate all foods down to animal kingdom only, we change our internal body totally more than still ingesting any carbs from plant materials.
Your fuel burning efficiency with no carbs is a higher ‘fully’ adapted level. Plus it keys in with other benefits like no plant low level toxin intake into your body and all this is that very tiny little bit internally for all of us that makes huge differences for many on dumping even 20-30g carbs from our lives.
Carnivore in its original form is based on zero carb eating but dubbed into carnivore and is getting slapped around out there by some gurus etc. Zero Carb was called that cause it means we eat zero plant material. We eat 0 fake sweeteners. We eat zero plant oils and only eat animal kingdom. Any trace carbs from eggs, or some dairy or liver or whatever are meaningless in that they are wrapped by nutritional meat/seafood protein intake. They are not wrapped in plant material and give our bodies low level toxin intake along with those carbs…and being animal kingdom depending on how we eat, many of us zc’ers barely eat a carb. We don’t do liver, we gave up eggs cause they are kinda useless as the dense meat will become the norm for most. Beef, lamb, pork etc. Dairy ya have to watch. the big wide world of dairy is very limited for most zc people who will only touch mostly hard aged cheese as a side if wanted but we aren’t sucking down milk full of high lactose and aren’t eating up yogurts and more. It is rare to find a ZC person delving far into the dairy options out there.
One function in our brain requires glucose to burn. The tiniest bit of carbs we might ingest from eating liver is way lower than a 25g carb intake for the day and our brain only needs…omg what was it, I have trouble remembering my old info…like 6-8g carbs? to make this process happen but of course our internal bodies produce some as needed.
I had so much more material on what points I am trying to make and darn if I can’t remember where I read up on it all. I am starting to forget what I have learned in my 3 years zc and why I did go this way and all the info on it from documented science and more LOL I think I am in that phase of I learned what I needed and why I do this plan and hold strong and believe in it all and kinda am now just cruising along in all its glory HAHA
Proof is in the pudding. One has to walk the walk to understand. We say do 30 full days but heck, in the older times it was always recommended that people do a full 90 day clean meat trial…cause time is required on this plan to heal and change but with everyone wanting instant gratification yesterday, lol, it kinda paired down to 30 days but to me, even 30 days is absolutely not enough time to understand this plan and how a person becomes a totally new and different person on this plan with big time under their belt. The veterans and longer term people can try to explain it but living it is where the proof shines thru tho.
I like this conversation on the board…great chat.
and now for something completely different… kettlebells and carnivore make a good combination.
This is well into my workout and it’s pretty warm out so I kinda look like hell but it was a good workout. This is part of a Turkish Get-Up.
By the way, I’m 8 or 9 months carnivore and so far I’m not dead yet… still sleep better, feel better, I’m 49 and don’t have aches or pains.
My workout today was 100 1 handed kettlebell swings, 10 Turkish gets ups (5 per side), 30 mace squats, 20 mace tosses, 20 360s, 20 10-2s, then the full warrior maker which is a workout unto itself. The warrior maker is 20 barbarian squats, 20 grave diggers, 15 spear thrusts, 10 sword draws, then repeat with the other side. All this with a gada mace. I don’t think I’d be in the shape I’m in if I had continued on the path I was on. Even as a long distance runner I was not fixing what needed to be fixed.
Carnivore has been life altering for me, in a good way.
You know I had no idea what this was LOL and had to go look it up…that is some workout you listed there!! It is so cool you are doing so well on that exercising/strength and keep rocking it out, someone has to do it, better you than me HAHA
Love love love your pics Bob, looking great!!!
8/9 months into zero carb eating and your few sentences you wrote Bob say SO much truly. ‘what needed to be fixed’ and that internal healing we receive from zc is the miracle many of us need.
for me those few words, life altering, so tiny that little bit of type, but the magnitude of their meaning is gigantic. This is how I feel about carnivore lifestyle also. I am truly a new person from zc!
Unless one does this plan longer term they will never understand the meaning of those few little words but you are doing fab!!
So happy you are doing so well!!
At first glance your kettlebell being green melted into the leafy background. I wondered what on earth you were doing and then spotted the word kettlebell in your text and took another look at the pics.
I love your routine and its good to hear you are feeling great.
Apologies for the delayed response. I was having issues with the site for a few days getting an error message and then it was my birthday weekend. So I was planning on having some veggies and pimento cheese so figured I’d postpone the full carnivore. The reason I say I dabble is because I’m worried about cutting all the fiber since I do have IBS. I’ve finally gotten in a good place and thus next to the meat generally I’ll have either a cup or so of cauliflower, broccoli or spinach. Again all super low carb but I’m cognizant then it doesn’t make me zero carb.
Now that the festivities are over. I’m going back to almost zero carb. Will focus on the fattier meats. Generally I would say I eat about a pound of meat but I notice that when it’s steak I do feel hungry. Whereas the pork I feel full. I guess I’m relying on things I’ve read that pork is inflammatory but as you said I have to figure out what works for my body and for me it may not be inflammatory. I also get worried if I’m getting the right nutrients as everything I see being posted on carnivore threads notes that we need more red meat on this diet to get the right nutrients. Another reason I add just a bit of veg.
Hi @Finishingtouches ,
I realize that I’m jumping into your conversation not knowing the whole background but you may just find that fiber could be part of, or “the”, problem.
If you get a chance check out Dr. Paul Mason. He has some talks up on youtube looking into fiber. It’s well worth checking out.
Couple questions, Not carnivore but I am a meat leaning ketor looking into Carnivor info
1 is dairy a no go on carnivor I mean cheese and butter mainly
2 you said beef and chicken bad was that sarcasm ( seems like it might be not sure) or did you mean that
3 You said carbs in meat/ seafood, I do know some shellfish have carb but is there carbs in meat,( I mean other then deli meats)
4 you mentioned about water to close to meals I have not heard this before what is this about, should I not drink water near a meal
How to add more satiety. I found that having a large mug of salty, beef bone broth adds to the overall satiety of a beef steak meal. You can drink it before, during or after. About 300ml.
The bone broth from simmering beef bones with salt for a long time to get a gelatinous broth with a fat cap on top when it is jarred and refrigerated. There is some fat. But not the same as adding tallow or butter. There is quite a lot of collagen, and I wonder, if that is what creates the satiety?