Another Carnivore Thread

#1585

I’d wager most of that supplementation is unnecessary outside of fasting or adaptation. Unless of course, they’re eating lots of veg and not enough meat.
With veganism or vegetarianism, though, supplementation is absolutely necessary and even then I don’t think it could possibly be healthy long term.

#1586

I don’t really get the hype about supplementing electrolytes on keto or on fasting. Yes, electrolytes are important and some extra salt MAY help some people. A lot of people, even. But people often act as we ALL should drink salty water all the time if our food contains less than 5g sodium a day. Or if we fast, like, 20 hours (many 16/8 IFers drink salty water as an obvious need, it seems). I don’t even understand why seemingly too many people are so sensitive, where this huge need comes from. Ancient people surely didn’t consume this much and I don’t think they all was dizzy and had headaches all the time or something.
Whatever. I think we should supplement electrolytes if we need more than what we consume. If we are fine, we are fine even if the numbers and recommendations says something else. It’s hard to say what my personal needs are, I don’t necessarily have much to do with some average number.

#1587

I like to point out old pictures to my kids of how the last 40 years have been so wrong.
Recently I picked up an old 1970s KISS lp. On the back was a picture of the crowd at a concert.
I showed it to my son and asked what he didn’t see in the picture, when he wasn’t sure what I meant I pointed out that none of the young people in the picture were fat.

They hear me say all the time how when I was a kid obesity was an odd thing except among old people. Diabetics were either young type 1s or had adult onset in their later years. It’s falling on deaf ears with my teenager who, even though he’s seen that sugar causes his acne to rage, would still rather eat sugar coated dog poop than give up the sweets.

I also point out stuff in the grocery stores as being nothing more than sugary dog food, often loudly enough for other shoppers to overhear. I don’t care. They’re eating kibble, literally sugar coated kibble and being told it’s healthy.

#1588

One doesn’t even need to give up sweets when giving up sugar… But even a tiny amount of sugary sweets would be better than a ton of them. I have my eating abilities and they are very good regarding sweets (the kind I like only, I never liked the pure carb ones) but I am nothing compared to some people who could live on it. For a while, at least but the human body is surprisingly sturdy sometimes. And bad with signs. I ate wrong in my past but I still desired (more) proper food first when I got hungry. It doesn’t seem to work this well for many people and it’s quite sad.

Sugar coated kibble sounds about right.

(mole person) #1589

I think that a lot of keto people are doing exactly that. They don’t just take the supplements because they are told to. Lots of people seem to need them yo control cramps and constipation on the diet.

Yup. And when our parents were kids it was even rare among the elderly. Ever seen pics of crowds prior to the 40’s?

(Edith) #1590

I agree, but I still have to take salt, even on carnivore, or I get muscle cramps at night.

I do think my increased need for magnesium had more to do with all the oxalates I was eating on keto than the diet being totally lacking.

Finally, I wonder if we drank the blood of the animals we hunted in our hunger/gatherer past which would have provided a fair bit of sodium to our diet? Also, drinking water from streams instead of municipal water would have also provided us with minerals that we don’t get these days. The need for electrolytes on keto could just be a manifestation of our modern environment.

#1591

Amen bob. what has changed in our food industry is very ‘current’ in the scheme of things literally on a life timeline. Disgusting, 24/7 fast food at your fingertips and way more have ramped up many common disease to a ‘norm’ now. Kids with type 2…becoming very normal. Obesity out of control on very young children, more of a norm. It is absolutely frightening in how little time it is all changing. The health of the world is on a massive decline, not one doubt about that, and with all our increased medical advances, we are no healthier than ancient times in the long run of it all. Sure we can give penicillian to keep from dying from pneumonia at a young age or a ton of other things that killed us young and fast…but now we suffer long horrible lives of sickness to the grave. I see it going down just like that. Sad truly.

#1592

Same here, sigh. I would love to be able to just salt to taste but when I try to lower my sodium intake my muscle cramps return big time!

@barefootbob I am loving The Carnivore Code. He packs a ton of info into that book.

#1593

I wonder why we are all so different on that. I got barely any cramps ever in extreme low carb, into zero carb ever. In fact I never got them in life mostly. Yet some get so many cramps. So interesting how this goes down for some but then again I have been an insane salt shaker my whole life. huh, just thinking out loud in type HA I guess my super salting has saved me much grief, huh

#1594

Yep, it’s interesting how different people are.
Some needs salty water for 16/8 IF! And others fast for 10 days without supplementing sodium just fine (well that sounds special even if the circumstances are ideal).
I don’t clearly know my limits but 4-5g salt a day and 2-3 day fasts are fine.

I only got cramps when I went into ketosis using my always low magnesium intake (if I get cramps, it’s lack of magnesium, every time) but only before I added meat. I still eat just little meat, I still go on/off keto (I hope I stop it for a while, I want to feel right for long) but I never got cramps again. Is it the drastically reduced amount of plants, even on my off days? Is it the meat? No idea. My magnesium intake is surely still low compared to the recommendations.

So, my 4-5g salt intake always worked. Now it’s a few times more due to salted pork. 7% salt is allowed in it, I have no idea about the exact number in mine but it’s VERY salty. I got somewhat used to the taste (and feel almost everything else horribly not salty, damn) but I feel my body doesn’t like this keto recommended amount of salt. Do you know the feeling when you eat oversalted food and it “burns”? I can’t explain it better. Well, I have that all the time to some extent, I think. I rarely focus on it and it’s very subtle but I feel it. My body was always very communicative about its needs and desires and problems (I don’t psychoanalize my past self on high-carb now but I desired good stuff too, it’s something).
But maybe it’s partially in my head. I don’t know but my new mission is getting fresh fatty pork somehow. It was my goal anyway but now I put more efforts into it. And try to figure out what to do with my salty but very delicious pork. I can get out the salt - together with its flavors. I don’t want to eat it with eggs but maybe with other meat…?

People get so many problems, not just cramps. I just read it a tad shocked. I never had such problems. Some people are very sensitive. Genetics, different past, different keto style, stress, bad sleep, whatever… There are surely many reasons for that.

#1595

@Fangs I never had cramps before I went on the keto diet. Even when (before keto) my sodium intake got way too low (summertime guzzling a lot of water and not paying attention to my salt intake) and ended up in the hospital I didn’t get cramps. I don’t know why that happens with keto/carnivore, sigh. I’ve tried potassium and magnesium and they haven’t helped. The only thing that helped was keeping my sodium at 3,000mg a day. I’m hoping that after I’m on carnivore a while I won’t need so much. I’d rather just salt to taste. On the other hand, Dr. Saladino recommends a lot of salt. A real mystery for all of us doing a ketogenic diet which a carnivore diet is.

@Shinita Yes, I know the feeling of eating oversalted food and having it burn, ugh. That’s why salting to taste is where I wanna be. :smile:

(Scott) #1596

I used to get cramps in my calves all the time. I do a fair amount of running and do Nautilus workouts. Ever since I started taking Magnesium Citrate in my water bottle they stopped. Just started carnivore Monday after thinking about it for a month or more. I can tell a much more pronounced “keto” taste in my mouth now. I guess I was eating to many almonds and “incidental” carbs. Can’t wait to get a couple of weeks under my belt to see what happens. Deep into Carnivore Code book at the moment.

#1597

I hear ya. I limited myself to just 20 almonds each morning but they made a big difference after all as I did some oxalate dumping when I first started carnivore. I’m enjoying The Carnivore Code too. Let us know what you think when you finish it, please?

(Scott) #1598

I woke up at 2:45 am and got several chapters read. I am such a geek for keto and now carnivore.

(Scott) #1599

I have never had beef liver but have been told it is awful. Does anyone here like them and if yes how do you prepare? Not sure how much of this “nose to tail” thing I can do but liver seems the tamest thing right now.

(Edith) #1600

I mostly use liverwurst to get liver, but last week I cooked liver with bacon and carmelized onions. I know onion is not carnivore, but it certainly made the liver palatable, especially with the bacon . I also made sure the liver stayed pink in the middle. The pink center also helped improve the palatability.

#1601

I just fry it in tallow and eat it. You can use ghee or any other animal fat too. It is also easier to get down when blended into burger. Oh, and Carnivore Aurelius has a new “liver chips” product out but they are a bit pricy. There are liver pate recipes around but I’ve not tried it that way.

#1602

I still never tasted beef liver but I will when the farm I trust will have it again. I am perfectly sure it won’t be bad, I kind of like liver, I just never ate the liver of a ruminant and I couldn’t eat it every day (well, I could if it I had to). But it’s surely good for variety!
And if I don’t like some meat (though it’s usually due to too little taste, not a strong liver taste), I blend it with eggs, that’s how my carnivore flatbread happens. I’ve heard about deviled eggs with liver too, interesting, it probably works. Liver and eggs, what could possibly go wrong? Of course, it’s about personal taste.

#1603

Good luck, keep us informed! I am usually pretty curious about other people’s experience even if they do it a bit differently. No one does my kind of dirty/almost carnivore anyway. I experiment a lot too, many people do, to find the best way! (And to have fun and to test even not sustainable things for a single day! Tomorrow I plan a day focusing on protein. I do that very rarely, rather the opposite so I am curious.) Carnivore was something else right from the beginning for me but I changed too much at once (I swapped my plants with meat and drastically dropped my carbs) so I don’t know what made the big difference, probably multiple factors. I am curious about longer term too but I won’t do clean carnivore, only extreme low-carb most of the time, it seems to be enough.
How did you eat before? Normal keto (is there such a thing? there are “clean” keto, IIFYM keto, both are popular) or something else?

Almonds are too expensive and nice but not that amazing to me (I like walnuts but never overdid them either), I was addicted to peanuts. My first carnivore day cured it just like a single “keto day” (without going into ketosis) cured my serious chocolate addiction back then. Dropping carbs is magical to me.
I am probably still very… connected with chocolate but a tiny bit now and then is enough. Probably. We will see long term. I don’t desire it, that definitely helps and habits change and I actually have a brain and conscious decision making abilities. It isn’t always apparent but very low-carb gives me more control. More like changes my desires. If I fancy some food, I usually still eat it but it’s fine. Or smell it or make it, whatever is my desire. It would be mentally/emotionally hard without making the usual food, it’s my hobby and I created so great recipes in the last decade… Most of them can be changed and improved, fortunately. And I don’t even need anything close to a hardcore vegan level “creativity”. Carnivore ingredients are powerful. Especially my beloved eggs. But if I want simple, I can do that too (well, my recipes are usually very simple). I like this benefit of good ingredients and a somewhat healthy relationship with food when we don’t “need” to eat everything or something similar to it. There is great food, it’s enough, at least most of the time, at least for my body.

#1604

that is interesting. good thing is you just keep on salting to feel better :slight_smile: I would rather put a 1/2 teaspoon of salt right into my mouth than oversalt my food too much. I am super heavy salter and sometimes I go overboard and eating that much salt of food can get icky for me too.

I know, bob mentioned the Bear, Owsley and he never salts. And then everyone else dies for salt on this plan but even Bob was walking more away from it to no salt. I still can’t seem to walk but try a bit but always seem to want it. Salt is a very weird one for all of us for sure.