Another Carnivore Thread

[Regina]

I’m not a carnivore but there are certainly days where I eat nothing but meat. This is a very refreshing discussion. When I started keto the “more salt” mantra was everywhere. I added more salt. What’s ridiculous was that I had been a saltaholic my entire life, and started adding even more. There cant possibly be a one size fits all salt recommendation. Pre keto I salted everything, bacon, oranges, bread. If I could have found a way to make extra salt stick to chips, I would have done so. I tried one day without salt and couldnt taste a thing. Salt to me is what sugar is to others. I am going to measure out my intake and see how much I am really using. And try to dial it back.

[Fangs]

If I pass in the next year, I’ll have a chat with all the Japanese in heaven and send ya’ll a postcard.

you are too darn funny!!! laughing here

You wrote out good info.

will check up on it myself and see what holds water and won’t won’t and get a feeling for how all this ratio thing is boiling down etc.

I am so on the fence again like I said before. I am just not sure which way to roll on this?? not sure how I want my forward life to go with salt just yet LOL

yea yea wishy washy on this one since I lived by the salt for so long.

[Fangs]

I’ve noticed that

• the more salt I consume, the thirstier I am
• the thirstier I am, the more water I drink
• the more water I drink, the more I pee
• the more I pee, the more salt I consume

Let’s face it… vegetables really do taste like without salt, added meat, and spices.

Yea bob and that is why your experiment on yourself which is going so well has my eyes opening up a lot about ‘how much salt’ do we really NEED…we need some obviously and meat can supply all we truly need in a day.

and without the carbs/veg toxins and more…our bodies are de-toxifying and working on a whole new clean level…so are all these ‘calculations from experts’ even apply to us carnivores?

you made great points here

[Fangs]

I had been a saltaholic my entire life, and started adding even more. There cant possibly be a one size fits all salt recommendation.

great post on your salt behavior.

I am you. Salt-a-holic here also I don’t add a touch, I put on a layer where the meat is white and people when they see me salt up something just have their jaw hanging open.

So I think my intake is a lot higher than I ever need…plus with the science of what we do truly need?? Taste…I love salt. In fact salt too the taste hit first and it is what I want to taste vs. the food…sad but true.

I am now dialing back also. big time. we can compare it all later for us salt-a-holics going cold turkey mostly

OH edited to say… by the way this is a very fabulous chat about salt and how we are trying to work it out and realize some truths about it.

great info on the board!!! ya’ll are so cool

[Regina]

Also, I am thin and fit, keto lowered my triglycerides nicely, everything perfect, but my blood pressure is higher than I would like. One doctor just said it’s normal for blood pressure to go up as one gets older. No one has prescribed anything for it but what is strange is that I take a beta blocker for mitral valve prolapse, so that right there should lower my blood pressure. I would like to stop/cut back on the salt long enough to see if my blood pressure is affected by it. Regular table salt tastes terrible now, but sea salt tastes like candy.

[Fangs]

I would like to stop/cut back on the salt long enough to see if my blood pressure is affected by it.

I think that would be a very worthy experiment on yourself. For some reason I bet you see a difference…can’t wait to hear how this goes for you!! Please definitely report back on that!

Regular table salt tastes terrible now, but sea salt tastes like candy.

yes yes I know. I tell people sea salt is ‘sweet’ compared to regular old table salt and people think I am nuts but I swear I taste it SO different than others. I love sea salt!

oh boy me and you got weirdo salt taste buds or something HAHA

[PortHardy]

Well its interesting if you think about it…
Some cultures dont use salt at all.
For ex: Traditional Israeli diet does not use salt. Its considered offensive if you salt your food.They focus on herbs and spices to season but not salt.
Traditional chinese and japanese diet didnt utilize salt until it became westernized. And im pretty sure Africa was the same way in most regions.

So isnt it interesting that even some of the hottest places in the world…have a no salt diet?

[PortHardy]

excellent point. There is a difference between “salt” - the kind we sprinkle and “salts”- electrolytes also known as sodium. Salt is composed of sodium but sodium can be found in foods where “salt” isnt sprinkled on.

[David_Stilley]

Out of curiosity I plugged some numbers into Cronometer on beef. The best choice seemed to be lean ribeye meat trimmed of all fat as an example. Usually ribeye would be equal weights of fat and lean muscle, unless maybe you’re eating trimmed grass fed beef steaks. So I had to monkey around with the calculations and chose 10oz to compensate for the trimmed fat counting it as an approximation of a one pound boneless ribeye. This particular listing had good nutritional data that was lacking in some of the other choices.

As you can see the balance of potassium to sodium is considerably higher than the ratios @DavyKOTWF mentions. If dietary needs are actually lower for these two elements then if anything the natural balance in beef muscle is a little low on sodium by comparison. However the kidneys will eliminate excess potassium or sodium to keep the balance correct. That’s part of the kidney’s function. If excess potassium is present and sodium is adequate the potassium will be passed in your urine to keep the balance correct. Magnesium is another topic but the RDA is based on metabolizing carbohydrates in the same way that vitamin C is needed for that, hence much lower vitamin C is required on a Carnivore diet.

[KetoSnaps]

• the more salt I consume, the thirstier I am
• the thirstier I am, the more water I drink
• the more water I drink, the more I pee
• the more I pee, the more salt I consume

I went absolutely mad for salt a couple of years ago and thanks to the results of my desperation to consume it I ended up being tested for diabetes insipidus. I was a slave to the tap and the toilet, and my record-breaking day was 10 litres in and 13 litres out.

Am not going there again…

No diabetes insipidus. I just needed to drink loads.

[David_Stilley]

Traditional chinese and japanese diet didnt utilize salt until it became westernized

This is flat out wrong. The Chinese were salt pickling in waterlock fermentation crocks 3,000 years ago and for considerably longer before those vessels were invented. The Japanese eat seaweed, and they dried it and harvested the salt crystals for use in tsukemono since ancient times. Also miso, soy sauce and all kinds of fermented salty foods have been a traditional part of Japanese cooking and food preservation as it has around the world. Unless we’re talking caveman days here.

https://gurunavi.com/en/japanfoodie/s/2015/08/tsukemono.html

For ex: Traditional Israeli diet does not use salt. Its considered offensive if you salt your food.They focus on herbs and spices to season but not salt.

Further more salt is essential to kosher meat cooking. Blood must be removed from meat before consumption and salting is an essential part of that process.

[VirginiaEdie]

I’m wondering if the need for so much salt is just a keto adaptation thing.

I thought the same thing. When I was about 8 months into keto, I got lazy with my salt supplementation. I started getting terrible cramps and muscle knots that moved around my body. As soon as I went back to my salt supplementation, all those cramps and aches and pains went away.

And like I mentioned, if I didn’t get enough, my calves would cramp at night. It has definitely changed on carnivore. Today, I haven’t supplemented at all so far.

Something else interesting: my oldest daughter is pregnant. Muscle cramps is a common symptom in pregnancy. She is not keto, but she increased her protein consumption and her cramps have gone away.

[VirginiaEdie]

I wonder if our earlier ancestors drank the blood of the animals they hunted, and would that have been a sodium source for them?

[David_Stilley]

@VirginiaEdie The Maasai and Mongolians certainly do. Blood consumption is more common in many parts of the world outside the US, like Asia and Europe. My guess is before modern butchering techniques more blood was naturally consumed if not collected and used directly.

[Justin_Jordan]

Plus, historically (and even currently) it’s reasonably common to consume blood, albeit not in liquid form, even IN Europe.

[DavyKOTWF]

“He made some of the best acid back in the day, a chemistry wizard. Nothing wrong with great LSD!”
Your honor…I rest my case.

Drinking blood by aborigine people is indeed because inherently or otherwise, they know they need the salt. ----> Virginia.
That book in the vid above, essentially said that 3g - 4g is optimal. And that lower amounts, certainly <1g or <300mg tend toward bare survival and is ‘crisis mode’. He goes on to say, “low salt diets are associated with cardiovascular risk and premature mortality.” Probably a good book to get and read. The Salt Fix by Dr. James DiNicol…

@Fang 3g might be a perfect compromise. And with 4.5g of potassium, that’s a very decent 2:3 ratio.

I’m setting my chronometer for 3g minimum and 5g max. Then I"m going to go eat some DNC - 72% cacao with sea salt.

[PortHardy]

Then im wrong regarding japanese and chinese. I guess i was thinming more on the lines of actually “salting” their food prior to eating like we westerners do.

However, i have it on good authority from my Jewish friend and her Israeli family that they do not “salt” their food prior to eating. Its an insult to them. Now given my limited encounters with israeli people, perhaps this “might” be just her family but her israeli relatives in Israel dont and wont use salt on a dish… Meaning salt is not serbed on the dinner table.

[PortHardy]

So why in the hay are Drs telling people to lower the amount of salt they consume in their diet? I dont get it…

[DavyKOTWF]

They’re misinformed. Dr.'s get about 30 seconds worth of nutrition in medical school. Most also think that red meat and real butter cause cardiov. disease and that the blood serum test for magnesium is accurate.
Notice that before you walk out of their office, you’ll have a handful of prescriptions to get. They don’t want to give you easy ways to correct your health; they must pay for their McMansions and Mercedes. Staying low salt will keep your body screwed up.

[Fangs]

Traditional Israeli diet does not use salt. Its considered offensive if you salt your food.They focus on herbs and spices to season but not salt.
Traditional chinese and japanese diet didnt utilize salt until it became westernized. And im pretty sure Africa was the same way in most regions.

very interesting. I didn’t know that. I always heard how ‘super important and valuable’ salt was, you know like trading gold and here people are not even using it and might find it offensive to use it on their foods…huh…fascinating on that one.