Another Carnivore Thread

#147

The Bear was Owsley Stanley, sound engineer for the Grateful Dead and long term carnivore.

The main reason I skip water after meals for a while is because it is much more likely to make me run to the head especially if I’ve had a lot of fat. Liquid beef fat has the same effect. Yesterday was the first time I had a meat meal that felt like it just sat there on my stomach for a while but the full feeling may have been from too much water and not the meat. Either way, I’ve found that drinking plenty of water outside of meal time works for me, drinking with or too soon after meals does not.

#148

@ReneeRC are you still reading Stefansson’s Fat of the Land? I think he talks about not salting food in there. Do you remember?

Yeah, I LOVE the taste of salt. After depriving myself for so long because of misguided medical mythology I took to really enjoying it.

Ah found it, or at least some of it, from Fat of the Land:
" Pur-suing the argument, he concluded that the reason why all Eskimos dislike salted food, though all white men like it,is not racial but due to custom. You could, then, break the salt habit with about the same difficulty as the tobacco habit,and you would suffer no ill result beyond the mental dis-comfort of the first few days or weeks"
He shortly thereafter mentions being given a can of salt, using it on his next meal, then not really needing it and eventually leaving it behind when they moved camp.

#149

I’ve been digging through some Stefansson this morning and found this that I liked:
“In the years of our long sledge journeys, when we used to live for six months or more on meat, and when we customarily broke in a new man or two at the beginning of each journey, I felt certain that in changing from a varied to an unvaried diet, from groceries and meat to meat alone,the difficulty was wholly psychological, thus depending on the conservatism of the individual, the strength of his prejudices. I still think of this as the main factor” Emphasis mine.

#150

I find it very interesting that Stefansson during his field journeys believed that salt may have predisposed or activated scurvy. The reason I find it interesting is that you can avoid scurvy by eating fresh meat but not canned meats. Is it that canned meats are so heavily salted? I’d like to know more about this.

#151

I found this interesting, from paleomedicina:
"FURTHER CONSIDERATIONS We do not know any advantage of coconut oil over lard. Coconut oil is obtained through food processing, in some cases it is hydrogenated too, which raises further quality problems. As all vegetable oils, coconut oil reduces the efficiency of the thyroid hormones, thus their consumption may lead to hypothyroidism. As in all vegetable oils, there are lectins in coconut oil, which are aggressive biologically active molecules. Omega-6 oils found in lard and other animal fats can be regarded as healthy. As regards their physiological role omega-6 of animal origin should be discerned from omega-6 oils coming from plants. Preference for coconut oil roots back to the 80’s and 90’s when cholesterol and animal fats were declared to be unhealthy. Recommendation of coconut oil in any diet, including the paleolithic diet, is unwarranted and not supported by scientific evidence. Pushing coconut oil is emerging as a faulty practice as serious as prohibiting cholesterol and animal fats. paleomedicina.com "

I did not realize that coconut oil contained lectins. I’ve known for a while that coconut doesn’t sit well with me and eating coconut oil has been known to upset my stomach. Even a little bit of MCT oil made me think I had a virus. Just food for thought, so to speak.

#152

bob I don’t remember this from his writings or the tests etc info done on him…any other info he put with this for a reason or why he thought this?

very interesting.

One thing is if our bodies heal more and more and we get thru adaption etc in fine form, is the salt in food more than enough…where we salt for taste. taste buds drive it. they say quitting salt is like quitting smoking LOL hard to do but once ya do it you eat stuff and say, wow that is salty a bit, I taste it…even just plain old meat.

I mean I know plain old water is super sweet in taste to me now when never experienced it before going Carn.

“Slaptember!” Challenge
#153

plant oils…all evil

if nature wanted you to have coconut oil it would be hanging on a plant for easy access.

at least the coconut is real. the oil they extract thru ‘process’ is destroyed etc…ugh.

only time a coconut is needed in our life is if we are starving and can’t hunt and no meat available LOL

It is wild how you feel your intake of food so acutely in your body. It shows how you react to the smallest thing and you know what is happening and can fix it.

“”"The experts’’’’’ in this world say a lot. We are told to believe. It is best to do our own research amongst all the wanna be good products that are all profit driven.

Hey ya know Cheeros are part of a heart healthy diet…wow ya know…if you hear it enough thru a ton of commercials bombarding you, eventually you believe it. It becomes a normal thing to hear and it sinks in that it must be that, they say it is :slight_smile:

#154

You should’ve seen the look on one guy’s face yesterday when I told him that every nutrient his body needs is in meat and no vegetables are needed. No one had ever told him anything remotely like that.
Just a year or two ago I would looked incredulous as well.

#155

The bit about salt and scurvy is in Fat of the Land on pg 57. It was an observation of his but it made me wonder why.

#156

Oooohhhh, I wanna jump into this conversation but HIIT and chores are calling, lol. I’ve been busy prepping organ meats and all the suet and beef fat trimmings I received yesterday. :slight_smile:

That book, The Fat of the Land, should be required reading! As soon as all my morning demands are done I’ll come back and read all the posts on this salt discussion. Man, I LOVE this forum! Btw, I’m going slowly through the book because it isn’t just about “meat.” ANYONE who genuinely cares about their health should read this book. That said, I’m getting ready to begin chapter 9. Gotta go. :heart:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #157

Duh…Bear! I’m a Deadhead. I also did a lot of LSD back in the day. Owsley was legend! One of my favorite Dead albums is Bear’s Choice.

image

image
63CC966C-6193-49C8-B219-FD48FA7AC45F.jpeg645×662 194 KB

It seems that I just remembered hearing about him being carnivore in passing a while back.

There’s two choices when you buy coconut oil. Extra Virgin and Refined. I don’t think coconut oil is ever hydrogenated, it’s not necessary because it already a saturated shelf stable fat. That’s why tropical oils are starting to replace hydrogenated fat in the processed food industry. They realized that saturated fat is less harmful than hydrogenated PUFA. There’s a law that went into effect that they have to phase hydrogenated fat out from processed foods by 2022 I believe. Kind of sick that the FDA gave them like 5 years to do it even though they know how harmful hydrogenated fats are. We’re all just cattle being experimented on to feed us the cheapest and most profitable crap the processed food industry can turn out. The chemical taste enhancers, cheap unhealthy shelf stable hydrogenated fats, processed grains and refined sugar are used to create human kibble.

Interesting about not needing salt if you’re pure carnivore. I wonder why KETO is so focused on salt consumption, is salt necessary because of the plant consumption? Or is it just what’s left to flavor foods when people cut sugar, a new flavor to focus on. Why do we crave salt and fat? Chips, pork rinds, pepperoni, salami, cheese…by the way Fangs, you commented a lot earlier about being 100% pure carnivore. But you’re eating processed meats and mayonnaise, what kind of evil plant extracts and oils are in those? Just curious, I don’t mean to pick at you. All this stuff is getting me prepared for my full carnivore trial next year. My ideas of what that will be are still evolving. I’m thinking the only dairy I will use is butter. I’ve been wondering about oils. I use bacon grease, butter and tallow mostly unless I want olive oil for a specific food like salad or Mediterranean dishes. I use Avocado oil usually for high heat searing or occasionally on a salad. And I love the flavor of coconut oil for some cooking specifically South East Asian and Chinese foods. I use MCT occasionally when I do a BPC Fast for a few days, my traditional stall breaker. But all these plant based oils won’t be necessary with carnivore because I am realizing that more than 90% of the time I am using them for vegetable consumption. I think I will be fine leaving vegetables and plant oils out, Salt and Spices is going to be the hardest elimination for me. I am a big nightshade consumer. Tomatoes and especially hot peppers I love. I often wonder if the anti nutrients in plants are causing inflammation in my body that I am just so used to feeling that it seems to be normal. There’s no way to know unless I cut them out for a 2-3 month period to see if my “normal” gets better. I hope you’re all right about only missing salt for a few days, I think I will cut that gradually using less and less for a couple of weeks to feel out the transition. I get serious headaches and spasms with not enough salt now. I eat way more than an ounce of meat per day now, why doesn’t that give me adequate sodium now? Just rambling with 100 questions here going through the stream of thoughts pondering carnivore and what that will mean to me. :cowboy_hat_face:

#158

LOL on the Bear :slight_smile:

Thing is we all were doing SO much before we did Carnivore. So what gets me is there is no studies of I was born carnivore and never ate anything but meat/seafood and good fat.

so any studies of carnivore as biased as with any other diet in studies.

There isn’t a human on the planet that hasn’t done something bad in our lives with our bodies. So LSD has long term effects. So the tons of party alcohol I drank has tons. The crap foods.

We are correcting it all and hope for the best but when a carnivore dies at an earlier age from cancer all say THE MEAT and DIET killed that person never once putting any and all behaviors to that, none of the accidental issues like spilling toxic weed killers on your hands while loading your sprayer over, I lived for 35 yrs right next to high energy power towers and over and a ton more.

Hey all, just putting that out there LOL

and the minute a person touches natural food…if you can even say that coconut was not sprayed with pesticides etc. to harvest etc…it ruins it big time. What they say they do…and the real process are usually different.

how many claims, grass fed butter only to find out the majority of the time the cattle are grass fed…other are supps and feed thru winter etc. if needed, so that I found the Findia butter say ‘majority of cows are grass fed’, I like that…so…

that coconut had a heck of a journey from seedling to processing.

sorry, when I say mayo I mean what I make.
Baconaisse.

from Zeroing in on Health forum. I got tons of recipes that work for me.

and yea I put this in a can of tuna and bacon and tuna do go together LOL

Here ya go:

Bacon Mayonnaise Ingredients

  • [ 2 egg yolks room temperature
  • 2 teaspoons apple cider vinegar or lemon juice
  • 1 cup liquid bacon grease
  • 1 teaspoon dijon mustard
  • pinch of salt

remember also that going carnivore if you can handle a spice or small amt of condiment you are clear. Condiments/spice are not food. They are concentrated tho in a way that it might effect some easily but luckily I am not one of them.

so when you see I eat alfredo sauce with my shrimp. I make it.
when I say mayo, I mean the above.

I guess I am so used to saying it that way that it can be confusing.

one question, an ounce of meat per day…must be a typo lol

#159

Did you guys find Frodo?

I find it very interesting that Stefansson during his field journeys believed that salt may have predisposed or activated scurvy. The reason I find it interesting is that you can avoid scurvy by eating fresh meat but not canned meats. Is it that canned meats are so heavily salted? I’d like to know more about this.

Yes, Stefansson had a good section on the difference in health between ingesting SALTED meats as compared to DRIED meats. He gets more into this in his Pemican chapters. I can’t wait to get to them!! He says that early on, Indians would dry their meat and their pemican consisted of lean meat and fat with no salt. So one could preserve their meats by drying or by salting. He seems to lean towards the “salt isn’t necessary” side but I want to finish the whole book before going further on that.

I haven’t read anything from The Bear yet but I’m looking forward to checking out his views since he was carnivore for so long. It is interesting that he played down the use of salt too.

I would love to know what the balance is on that topic. When I first was LCHF (in the higher range of carbs so before going keto) it was summer and I was enjoying a lot of water. Ended up in the hospital for 3 days with super low sodium. I don’t EVER want to feel like that again, ever, ugh! So when I started on keto I always made sure to keep my Redmond Real Salt intake at around 3,000 mg’s a day. Any less than that and I’d get leg cramps. I haven’t had one cramp on carnivore. Interesting.

Anyway, I’d like to try to use less salt but I get nervous about it. I feel like the 3g is too much on carnivore. Salt to taste? I also only drink water when I feel the need now and I don’t overdo it like I did that summer. I like the taste of water so I could get carried away with it if I wasn’t paying attention. Like @David_Stilley, I can drink with my meal and it doesn’t seem to bother me, but I can’t “stuff” myself at meals or I don’t feel good afterwards.

And that info on coconut oils from paleomedicina is interesting to me. The entire time I did regular keto I couldn’t tolerate coconut oils. Same with the MCT oils. Coconut flakes didn’t bother me but the oils did. I had no idea they contained lectins! Hmmmm.

#160

Nope, haven’t found Frodo. :confused:

#161

I ate him…heehee

(Full Metal KETO AF) #162

Here…:cowboy_hat_face:

#163

oh just another small item is mayo is a condiment. According to C Washington from ZIOH condiments are not food…and not to be used as such in a way that a little IF you can handle it easy with no ill effects can be used. So if one goes by what a carnivore is allowed to have a bit of and you aren’t ruining your plan and do well on it…………when I hit a restaurant and buy a philly cheesesteak with no onions or peppers or whatever they put on it and take it off the roll (and if you ask for the guts off the roll it seems to me they give ya bit more meat lol) and then I will use their mayo cause I love it combined with mayo.

So I opt for that in my menu that day. Rare use but I will do it.

hope that clarifies a bit

#164

that is according to Bear in that I have no idea where he sourced that tho……so…I guess best we can do is a general source on salt content in fresh meat and seafood and see what science says on it :slight_smile:

#165

I’m shocked I tell you, Shocked, lol. Only did it once. Seemed harmless enough at the time. After all, it was just a little micro dot…:scream: lol

(Full Metal KETO AF) #166

The lectin in coconut oil inspired me to investigate. My son who’s on the autism spectrum has been on a low lectin diet for several years. It’s something we studied up on a while back. It’s interesting to note that a lectin free diet is impossible. There would be nothing to eat at all. Lectins are pervasive in everything in the plant and animal kingdom. They break down foods categorically according to how much lectin you will be consuming in general. Caprylic acid is Level 1 with other oils and Beef. It’s interesting to note that pork and some other foods common to carnivore are Level 2. The article below is short and interesting and purely from a lectin analysis standpoint, not KETO so many foods are listed we wouldn’t eat. There maybe some difference in tolerance of animal lectins vs plants. But Casein is up on the list and eggs, pork and chicken are higher than quite a number of plant foods. Lectin is a protein. The main event for lectin once it enters your body is that it binds to carbohydrates and sugars. It keeps the nutritional aspects of those foods from being usable.

:cowboy_hat_face: