Almost a year on KETO and I’m crashing and burning after eating?


#21

I would try to go low carb (around 100g of carbs per day?) instead of keto for some days or weeks. I would just add some starchy vegetables like pumpkin or sweet potatoes, or some berrys and dairy, and start keto again, when I feel better.


(Steve) #22

I forgot to mention stress, it’s a killer!
Stress can mess your system up in a bunch of ways including depression leading to a crash and burn. . At least it does for me.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #23

@ketoandabs Sorry, I am highly insulin resistant and I don’t think pouring gasoline on the fire will help me in anyway. I do not subscribe to the add carbs to fix a keto problem philosophy. I’m not interested In going in and out of brief moments of ketosis. At best it’s a temporary feel good like taking a drug and you pay afterwards feeling like crap. :cowboy_hat_face:


#24

Definitely agree that it might be a cortisol stress response. That said I do see you mentioned zolpidem,and it’s very very possible to have similar side effects with long term use, the medication is only approved for six months max use at a time even though it is often used for years. It also poorly affects sleep quality because it leads to less deep sleep.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #25

@Erevehc I have been thinking that I might benefit from sleep analysis with in a sleep clinic or using some kind of app and device like a smart watch or ring. I sometimes go without the zolpidem but it can be the difference between getting some sleep or tossing for an hour and a half, getting out of bed to smoke marijuana and do a puzzle or something until I am exhausted and start to pass out. On those kind of nights I typically sleep about 4 hours. I have been using it for years, but not always as a nightly habit. Sometimes I can go without it so I don’t think I am addicted to it where I can’t sleep without having it. I would like to not have to use it as much as in recent months. And the afternoon coffee can be a double edged sword. :cowboy_hat_face:


(PJ) #26

I don’t know the answer. But that’s about how long I’d been keto before reactive hypoglycemia hit me. Mostly after breakfast which was usually the same eggs and sausage or bacon I’d been eating off and on for a year at that point (but without that result). Sometimes the BG crash was so hard I’d nearly be unconscious though I called it “sleep.” Jimmy Moore (an internet personality re: lowcarb) has publicized this some. Originally when he and I and others talked about this, lowcarb experts suggested we were either morons or lying. :roll_eyes:

I had bacon and eggs the other day, it’s been eons, and had that effect again. I was ranting in another forum about how I’d forgotten this effect which I associate in great part with eggs for some reason (which seem to be insulinogenic for me way over what ought to be the case given their macros). (A real PITA since I’d like to intake lots of them.)

I don’t know what the cause is, but it did not happen to me or Jimmy or others I’d known until we’d lost a whole lot of weight eating ketogenically. I don’t know if it’s some kind of reaction to that or not.

By then, of course, we were well familiar with it. I was a supplement freak, had done very well losing bodyfat and improving health.

In the end, for me at least, I still get the effect if I eat eggs or too much protein and fat at the same meal. I can eat a boatload of protein if it’s just pork loin or just sirloin steak and not get that. But that is minimal fat. I can eat a lot less just in eggs and sausage and I’ll be snoring in my chair if something isn’t forcibly keeping me awake. It complicates eating once a day and I tend to undereat if I do 1MAD as a result.

I don’t have an answer for the why or the solution.

PJ


(Full Metal KETO AF) #27

@RightNOW So much of your post resonates with me. Thank you. I have lost 50lbs. in 11 months, 25% of my body mass. It’s been pretty recently coming on harder with the after eating fatigue. I have been much more focused on meat, eggs and fat recently because I have dentures and haven’t been able to use them for a while due to implant surgery. I have pretty much eliminated vegetables for the last few weeks. I have increased egg consumption and ground meats like beef and bulk sausage. Lots more cheese and sour cream too to fill out my diet. Usually I eat more vegetables but recently mostly zucchini and tomatoes I grow and some avocado a couple times a week. Maybe it has to do with shifting more towards carnivore lately mostly out of necessity but also curiosity. In two weeks I should be finished with the dental issues :tooth: :crossed_fingers:t2::crossed_fingers:t2: and will be shifting my diet again including my homemade ferments and pickles. It’s interesting that you crash after consuming high fat. I never heard of this. I have been up on fats with my recent dietary shift. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Edith) #28

I was going to suggest too much protein. I find if my protein meal (no veggies) was too high in protein and not enough fat, I will feel sluggish and sleepy after the meal.


#29

This was exactly my first thought.

The other thing that makes a difference for me is taking vitamin B. I should get enough, given how much meat I eat, but it makes a huge difference for me. Though, I will note that I have some neuro issues that suggest I might have the MTHFR gene mutation (I haven’t tested, so I don’t know for sure) and one of the problems with that is vitamin B uptake.

BTW, I take magnesium before I go to bed. You might try that to help a little with your sleep issues.


(traci simpson) #30

Set a timer on your TV so that it turns off an hour or so after you’re asleep or use a sleep relaxation app. I use one and it doesn’t “put me to sleep” but it relaxes me quite a bit so that my mind isn’t thinking about stuff.


('Jackie P') #31

I posted about this before. Sometimes I have eaten minimal carbs and feel like I am experiencing a hypoglycaemic attack, a bit shaky and sweaty. With my knowledge it seems to me that my bodily cells, once insulin resistant are now insulin receptive, and a release of insulin can drop my blood sugar quickly. I don’t read much about this but it is my theory.


(Heather Meyer) #32

Hey Dave,

I know a lot of people are giving you lots of info to chew on and think about. Just wanted to add a possible thought… Low Testosterone? or Low T3/T4? Maybe asking Doc for a hormone panel and fasting cortisol levels might be good? Maybe adrenal fatigue?

Honestly, you look like you have a well-rounded diet and keep up on the lytes. Just wanted to tell you that im thinking of you and hoping for some solutions for ya! :hugs:


(Full Metal KETO AF) #33

@Ilana_Rose It’s interesting about the thyroid bit. I think I have never been tested for that. I thought I had but when I looked it was two parathyroid tests in the last year. They usually monitor this when you are a renal patient. I looked up about PTH and found this quote

THEREFORE:

A person with a high blood calcium that has a high parathyroid hormone level at the same time–almost surely has a bad parathyroid gland.

One of the major symptom is low energy and fatigue.They go on to talk about the likelihood of a benign tumour on one of your four glands. I have had elevated calcium going back to when I was on dialysis but would take a lot of effort to confirm that. However I have this info from the last year, my calcium score has been above normal at 10.2 - 10.8, pretty much all year. Normal is below 10.2, but above 10.0 is high for an adult I read. The two Parathyroid tests the I have had in the last year, had way elevated levels. The more recent at 175, the sheet I posted at 250 is older.

It seems odd all my doctors would order and monitor this yet not be alarmed. I just wrote emails to my GP, and nephrologist whom I scheduled an appointment with.

And my last comprehensive blood work

My elevated calcium is in spite of my diet, Cronometer is only the last week because I can’t pull up a longer average but this is typical

Now I am wondering if there’s a problem, the doctors weren’t alarmed at the outrageous PTH levels and high calcium scores? My dietary calcium intake is low but blood levels are high, it seems like my body is having difficulty regulating the calcium levels in my blood which the parathyroid controls. Thanks for the idea, if only that it brought up some legitimate questions for my doctors.

:cowboy_hat_face:


(Jeremy Wheatley) #34

@David_Stilley I completely understand what you’re talking about… I’ve been on keto for just over a year now and just here in the last three weeks or so after I eat my lunch at work I’m fighting to keep my eyes open. And my lunch consist of two boiled eggs a half of avocado and a pickle. But after I eat that I feel like I just ate mashed potatoes stuffing and corn.


(PJ) #35

In no particular order, responding to various above:

High fat doesn’t make my BG crash, only high fat and high protein at the same time and it usually has to be certain foods, like eggs, involved.

I eat a high fat high protein meal that is mostly cheese with some mayo, garlic and hot peppers, and while that makes me full it does not make my BG do that.

I think there is just more for science (and eventually us) to learn about how different individuals respond internally to different foods. Glucose is not the only way to raise insulin, and it might just be something else we aren’t clear on yet that only some people experience.

Unrelated: My parathyroid numbers are like that mentioned, but for me at least, it’s an artifact. (Parathyroid for those who don’t know, has nothing to do with the thyroid. It’s named that simply because they sit on top of the thyroid. This manages the calcium in the body and blood, causing it to be released or stored as needed to keep a good blood level going.)

So it goes along fine and its numbers are fine, but because I have to constantly supplement with minerals due to heart valve edema, diuretics (to deal with the edema), and keto’s low body water situation (which given the edema adding daily and the sodium being pushed out daily by the diuretics, my poor body is just constantly up and down in water), my calcium number in the blood is high as well. This makes it look like both numbers are high which makes it seem like there is a problem with the PT. If I ever get health insurance again I might have a scan done just to be sure, but this didn’t come up until I ended up in ER for a calcium seizure after losing 44# of water in 16 days (oops) (after going back on keto after holidays). I’m doing it to myself sadly… but for me, I believe it’s not a PT gland tumor problem, just a having trouble getting this keto water drop and supplementing with minerals straight problem. Obviously… best see a doctor if you’re worried though :face_with_monocle:

Last night, this morning and today, I ate a crazy amount of protein in chili verde. (spiced pork loin) like 16oz each time. Aside from feeling relaxed this morning – after about two weeks straight of sleep deprivation except one day, so, not surprising – I didn’t get any of the BG crash I did with just a few eggs and several slices of bacon the other day. It really does, for me, seem to be ‘too much protein + too much fat combined’ – or, specifically, eggs. Go figure.


(Edith) #36

Fatigue can be a symptom of food intolerance.


(Ken) #37

I’ve been hesitant to post in order to see all the speculative responses. Plenty of advice from people who have never experienced the actual condition you’re describing.

I posted about this last Fall, describing how I’d react to high fat meals, saying they were similar to the old “Carb Coma” reactions I had experienced when I was obese. I considered it a metabolic/hormonal secretion/resistance issue.

I also detailed how I was adding limited carbs back into my eating pattern, generally every other day in order to prevent completely refilling my glycogen. I did this from Thanksgiving until New Years.

I alleviated my Condition. I no longer experience energy drops after I eat. I do have to eat some carbs a few times a week or they start to come back. I do consider that in the long term limited carb consumption is both natural and beneficial.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #38

@240lbfatloss What level of extra carbs 2-3 times a week are you eating? And were you also eating some carbs everyday?

:cowboy_hat_face:


(PJ) #39

Yeah @240lbfatloss ^^ what he said :smiley:


(Ken) #40

Nothing major, usually one carb based meal out of two for that day. I always ate the carbs as a first meal, never in the Evening so there would be no chance of any significant buildup of liver glycogen. Sometimes I’d eat a bowl of oatmeal with brown sugar, milk, cinnamon etc) Other days it would be a couple of pieces of fruit. If at mid day it could be a burger and fries or a potato or rice with my meat. I generally, but not always restricted my fat somewhat when I ate carbs, but honestly it didn’t seem to matter. An onion bagel with bacon, cream cheese, garlic and chopped olives was/is one of my favorites. I fluxed a little water weight while I was doing it, but I actually was a couple of pounds lighter when I finished.

I make it a point now to eat some carbs a couple of times a week.

Personally, I’d chow down on carbs for a weekend at the start, restrict them for two days, then do the one meal every other day after that, but if you want to eat them both weekend days it would be OK too.