Adequate fiber is a real problem

food
(Alec) #21

Ok, looks like all the google refs are coming from the standard dietary guidelines. You know what we think of them? It’s the same document that says we need to be eating 60% calories in carbs. So those documents are deeply flawed and driven by vested interests, and I wouldn’t trust them in any way to be illustrating a healthy way of eating.

#22

Whether the reason is related to fiber, gut microbiome, vitamins, detox, or other factors, the conclusion is the same. Many LC gurus (especially those who are clinicians treating patients) place importance on veggies as part of a well formulated LC diet. Just off the top of my head, the list includes Dr Perlmutter, Dr Wahls, Dr Westman, Dr Mercola, Dr Berg. And on the other side, I don’t believe that folks like Dr Esselstyn, Dr Goldhamer, Dr Fuhrman, Dr Ornish and other plant based gurus have it totally wrong. Some of them are treating real patients and have good results.

I’m most interested in optimal health. I part ways with any diet at the point it dictates a something that deviates from this (to the best of my knowledge). Just like I don’t take medicine that I don’t need, I don’t restrict carbs more than I need. I’m not diabetic, I don’t need to eat like a diabetic. My body’s current carb threshold is about 50-75g per day. There is no physiological benefit from me eating less than that. And it means that I can eat a large amount of veggies and a fair amount fruit.

For me, this isn’t an ideology or religion. I don’t know the path to heaven, but I’m covering as many bases as I can. Low carb, Paleo, plant based diet with sufficient animal protein. That should do it…

#23

Fiber bloats me out and ruins my bikini body.

(Richard Ames) #24

“What WE think of them…” ? Is this, like, a club? I’m in my first month of keto, and so far loving it. Feel wonderful, and losing weight at a good rate. But the “keto community” (I wasn’t even aware there was one until now) is kinda creepy. One guy got real abrasive with me because I suggested fiber might be important for good health. Is this “community” based on science and learning, or are you folks like, well, a cult? Geesh.

(Ron) #25

Are you saying that you agree with the Standard Dietary Guidelines that have been scientifically proven to be wrong? No disrespect, just wondering if you do or don’t fall into the we cult? Lol :wink:

#26

This works for me.

(Richard Ames) #27

I’m saying that the keto “community” is getting weird, like one has to be a true believer or one is not let in, you’ll get ridiculed. I only discovered this trait keto fols have this past week, when I ask questions. It was like I was challenging some orthodoxy. Really odd. Folks need to maybe settle down a bit. We all have a lot more to learn about what’s going on in the human body where nutrition and health are concerned. So much we don’t know, keto people included. I love my keto experience thus far, but I’m not impressed at all with its “community.”

(Richard Ames) #28

I bought some flax seed. I don’t know what the hell to do with it. I’m think of buying a grist mill so I can turn it into something somewhat useful.

(Fernando Urias) #29

I think Dr. Paul Mason has shown the science. Thank you Mark for posting. I liked the video a lot. Thanks Lonnie, Sondra, and Ron for showing more science. Thanks Richard for raising the question. The information provided filled a gap in my mind. I can see that the excitement of possessing a solution to a personal health problem that goes against existing beliefs gives the impression of a cult. If the principle of “show me the science” is maintained, the fascination for the ketogenic lifestyle will not become a cult but a guiding path to millions of people in sickness.

#30

If you have good teeth, they make a great side addition to your meal.
I mix all my 6 different seeds together and then fill a small pill bottle with them.
I then just pour a small amount in my mouth and chew them very well. That way they will not oxidize as they would quite fast in a coffee grinder. I never heat them either.

I mix a whole pale-full together and freeze them in separate Ziploc bags with 2 cups of seeds in each bag.
Take a bag out of the freezer as needed. They are really great also to carry around just in case you get very hungry. Friends that I am with will ask me for a swig quite often because they are so satisfying and addicting.

(German Ketonian) #31

I think since the science is ambiguous on this topic, most of us adhere to N=1. And, for most of us, it seems to confirm that we fare better with less, rather than more fiber. No hard feelings, @semarla

(Ron) #32

In all fairness, you did present a question about fiber and when the responses were not favorable towards it as much current data suggests, you got defensive in your stance supporting fiber. You are correct in that the evidence is still a question as it pertains to the Ketogenic diet and as such could potentially validate either response in the future, and defending either stance as gospel is biased and could be perceived as “cult-ish” and not healthy for all involved.

(Carly Lyczba) #33

Looking over my days I get about 15g fibre a day, I wasn’t counting it. Everything seems to be working fine in that department :grin:

(Carly Lyczba) #34

But isn’t this coming from the same people that say we should get most of our calories from wholegrains?? I just go by how I feel and on keto I’m not bloated and I’m regular or if I don’t go it’s just because I don’t need to and it feels fine.

(Bunny) #35

Please forgive me your highness, a mere mortal who eats veggies such as myself dare respond to your post…

Some more “words” for your reading pleasure, of course…

In the case of ”proven fact” some more “conjecture” (“science?”)…

Optimal Dieters viz. Carnivore:

Still wondering (“I suspect”) how the carnivore diet fares with time (long-term)?

The variables:

  1. Too many processed meats/proteins?

  2. Not enough ofal (organ meats)?

  3. Not enough marine life in the diet?

  4. Too many muscle meats/proteins?

  5. Cooking methods (e.g. thermal/heat) or time cooked vs. Raw (rareness)?

(bulkbiker) #36

Sorry Richard but a lot of us have realised that we simply cannot just accept what the “experts” have told us because it is often seriously flawed/completely incorrect. Hence we like to question things.
When you come here and say “Men should have about 35 g of fiber daily” I’m afraid that it will be questioned fairly robustly. I have learned that Type 2 diabetes rather than being the “chronic, progressive disease” I was told it was by my HCP’s is actually reversible/in remission/cured by following a ketogenic diet. The “experts” for the most part disagree with this…
When you read a lot of the more recent research on cholesterol and statin use you will find similar anomalies. When you can hear directly from people who are leading some of this research here then you start to get very suspicious of anything that the “experts” (especially if they are government experts) say.

(Sarah Bruhn) #37

Great talk… that’s the thing about keto, makes you question everything you’ve been taught about diet.

(Mandy) #38

I’m not super interested in getting into a debate but I can say this. For my body, I have tested it, and I do need some fiber. About 15 grams a day makes me feel best. With that said, lettuce now seems to disagree with me. I account for fiber, lots of fat and other good stuff by making a keto “cereal”. It’s delicious and fat filling.

I eat it several times a week with a splash of heavy cream.

(Todd Allen) #39

Here’s my favorite use for whole flax seeds. I’ve made endless variations on this nut & seed loaf recipe and it almost always turns out great.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/seed-nut-loaf/12636

Ground flax seed works well as a flour replacement in many recipes functioning as a thickener or binder.

#40

Says who? It’s been shown time and time again that’s not the case. You say your digestive tract is suffering? How so specifically? Not going? Can’t go at all? Fat absolutely keeps things moving through the system assuming you’re eating right.