Adequate fiber is a real problem

food
(Todd Allen) #41

There’s a diverse community here. If you hang around you’ll learn of many trigger words that activate various subsets. Fiber is one of those words. Use the search function on fiber and you’ll see it’s a topic that comes up often.

As for science there is so much published that it makes it pretty easy to compile a long list of references supporting almost any point of view on any topic. Sorting through all of the limitations, flaws and nuances is daunting and rarely done well. Fiber pretty clearly has both good and bad traits - for example it feeds gut bacteria which come in both good and bad varieties. In the end I think self-experimentation is vital. If you get acute effects either good or bad from trialing a higher fiber food act accordingly. If nothing obvious changes then it probably doesn’t matter a lot. And there are so many interactions that just because something is good or bad for you now doesn’t mean it will stay that way.

(Brian) #42

Might want to relax a little, Richard.

There are a lot of good people on here. And if you do a little looking around, these are some of the friendliest of the groups out there. (The few I’ve visited other than this one were rough.)

Not everyone here agrees on everything. We’re pretty much OK with that idea. Not all the “experts” even agree on everything. (For example, Phinney and Fung have different ideas on fasting. But many of us still have a lot of respect for both of them.)

Some people do well with nearly zero fiber. Others need it to do well. So who is right? About all we can do is share our own experiences and the bits and pieces of what we’ve read along the way.

It sounds like you’re only into this thing a month or so. Sometimes it takes a while for this stuff to get itself worked out. It took several months for me, from constipation to diarrhea, but after a little time, it sorta worked itself out. I don’t take anything, I just eat real food. I do eat my veggies, mostly cooked. I don’t eat a lot of salads and raw greens as I don’t have the teeth for them ( \years of vegan living were not kind to me that way). But I’m not shy about broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, spinach, turnip greens, asparagus, squash, and numerous others. I like my veggies and apparently, they like me. How many grams, I haven’t a clue. Don’t care. I just eat.

Good luck. I hope you get it figured out. If you’ll be a little more specific, there might be more specific things people could suggest. Not sure it it’s too hard, too soft, too frequent, too infrequent, not sure what “suffering” means exactly. And most of the people here are pretty forgiving if you’ll put the claws away. Hey, we’re all in this together. And we all want to see everyone here succeed. No we don’t all do it exactly the same way. Mostly, though, we’re respectful and supportive of the things that seem to be working for others.

(Lonnie Hedley) #43

Please stop mentioning me in your posts. I think I’ve made it clear I don’t read them. As I mentioned, I’m sure there are people who find them helpful, but not me.

Thank you, and I hope you have a great day!

(KCKO, KCFO) #44

Thanks for this posting. I really needed to read this one.

(Linda) #45

Everyone here is not one long human centipede so what helps one person may be detrimental to another.

You want fiber? Eat nuts and seeds and fibrous green veggies. Personally, when I did this I had to live inside a gaviscon bottle for a week to make my stomach stop hurting. I now feel 2000 percent better since stopping. But that’s just me. I lost my cast iron stomach decades ago. If the OP still has theirs, good for them.

(Bunny) #46

As was apparently “not made clear” by you specifically, NOBODY was responding to YOU specifically, in another thread, the response by ME was in relation to a question posted within the article linked in your post?

In the case that you “do not want any one responding” to your future posts please specify that in your posts, I would also suggest you refrain from posting links (you apparently “do not read?”) up for debate, collaboration or information in the future if that truly is the case?

Let me take this opportunity to thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter and for your helpful conclusions “about not reading?”

Have a wonderful day and a better tomorrow!

(less is more, more or less) #47

Quite a pandora’s box you opened here.

My dad died of a protracted colon cancer battle when he was 41, 50-odd years ago. I’ve had more colonoscopies than Carter’s has liver pills, since I have a likely (and verified) genetic propensity to this ugly cancer. This also heightened my awareness on my food choices, such as when fiber (remember the oat bran craze in the early 90’s, old timers?) came on the scene and crashed my diet like a might wind blowing. In fairness to my doctors over time, they’ve been careful to claim that they didn’t know for certain which lifestyle habits contribute to its onset. Fiber was a popular remedy, and I, having little to lose, went “all in” on fiber and bran. That ended when I “went Keto."

A year into Keto, and where I try to get the majority of my carbs from fiber-rich vegetables (I try to remain strict about 20 grams of total carbs) I have no n=1 experience to relate. My next colonoscopy will tell me what I need to know. I’m pleased to report my prep fasting will be a breeze this time, thanks to IF.

I haven’t seen any science presented that supports your 35 grams claim, (a google popularity count is novel at best) though, if one is offered, I’m open to checking it out. Until then, however, I expect to stick to my current plan. I’ll also add that coconut oil surely greases the skids, if you know what I mean, such as when I add it to my morning coffee. Powerful stuff.

Offered for your viewing pleasure, an SNL skit when fiber was king:

#48

Which of the seeds have you tried?
I tried chia seeds and I didn’t go to the bathroom for half a week. I have yet to try psyllium husks, which I have but I am a bit weary. Between fasting days and keto days, my intestines are a mess.

(Lonnie Hedley) #49

OK You too!

(Richard Ames) #50

Well, it’s not as if dietary fiber hasn’t been extensively studied, and there actually are many studies that “suggest,” that lack of fiber increases risk of some forms of cancer, most notably colon cancer. So the question about lack of any fiber in keto isn’t academic. No one has ever studied long-term keto in statistically significant populations, so it is certainly possible that 15 years down the road, keto adherents will see a spike in cancer diagnosis’s and cancer deaths among them. Please don’t say that is highly unlikely, or that I am probably wrong. This is not alarmism, but reasonable thinking, and prudent thinking. As you said yourself, we have no idea yet about many diet related issues, but we do have this library of data out there about the health benefit of fiber, that has drawn correlation between lack of fiber, colon cancer, colitis, diverticulitis, and other aliments. And keto fanatics can’t dismiss it away by saying Big Fiber is pushing it, because there is no Big Fiber, no bogeyman. Correlation isn’t necessarily causation, I get that, but the seriousness of the issue and just saying zero fiber is cool in this case, and then being wrong about that down the road is, well, significant.

And about the “keto community.” This wasn’t about me, even though I’ve been verbally manhandle by keto fans at times. It’s really about what I’ve observed here, and over at the Reddoit forums, on blogs, on YouTube videos, etc. Ketoism has an aggressive edge to it that is not at all helpful to finding true answers to the human diet riddle. The attitude does border on some ideology, like it’s a “movement,” a sort of we’re-mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to-take-it-anymore thing. It’s quite weird. I wish it would stop.

In the mean time, I’m enjoying my own experiment with keto, going on six weeks now, and seeing a lot of benefits I like. I’m working on finding a fiber solution I feel okay about. One thing I didn’t expect at all is that my mood has been consistently better starting about a month ago, which was when I entered into optimal ketosis (I do blood sampling). So that surprise has been quite remarkable. And welcome.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

(Raj Seth) #51

Psyllium husk? all fiber - little else. Indians (not red :smiley:) have been having it for centuries. It is dual purpose - works for loose and tight stools equally well. I use 4 tbsp to break any fast longer than 2 days.
That said, I am close to ZC, and dont have more than a few grams of fiber daily. I have never had issues. And, yes, I had a colonoscopy - clean bill of health - 10 yrs return.

With a keto diet, the waste from ingested food is WAY less. Yes, the body still has :poop: to dispose of, so you will still :poop:, but the volume of :poop: should be way way down. Doesnt matter if you :poop: less as long as you are not backed up. If you are, psyllium husk is the answer.

image
image.jpg338×640 82.8 KB

I use this one - but I get it for near $0 from India. Amazon has loads of local brands

(Brian) #52

Richard, since colon cancer seems to be on your mind, maybe this article may be of interest:

(Richard Ames) #53

I will buy some. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

#54

Great I was planning to try psyllium husks already, now I.am more motivated. Isn’t 4 spoons a lot? I used pre-keto only 1 spoon, in a big glass.

(Bunny) #55

Interesting:

Probable Cause: “… There have been many attempts to explain why red meat[3] is different, but probably the simplest explanation is closest to the truth. Heating. Excessive heat[1][3] gives rise to many different new substances[1], some of which are potentially[2] carcinogenic[1].

The best example is again smoking. It’s not the tobacco or the nicotine that increase the risk of cancer – it’s allowing the tobacco to burn and inhale all the new substances formed during combustion[1][3]. …” …More

Footnotes:

[1] “… MeIQx, 2-amino-3,4,8-trimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (4,8-DiMeIQx) and PhIP were shown to be present in dry-heated meat juice …” ibid. ”…Heterocyclic amine (HCA) mutagens are produced in a wide variety of cooked or processed meats and fish and are known to be carcinogenic in rodents and considered to be probable[2] human carcinogens (Sugimura and Sato, 1983; Layton et al., 1995; Skog et al., 1998)…” …More

[2] Probable? …how much exposure e.g. a constant dietary staple and under what thermal heat conditions before eating?

[3] Dr. Royal Lee, Conversations in Nutrition - Volume One

(KCKO, KCFO) #56

margot17 start with one tablespoon, if you haven’t been getting much fiber, 4 might be overkill. When I use psyllium I only use one tablespoon, it usually takes care of any issues. My husband can’t take a spoonful. I have a sister that uses 3 to get results (survivor of colon cancer) so we are different in what we need to use.

#57

Fiber - try looking at tahini.

#58

I stumbled across this video today:

#59

I mix all my 6 different seeds together and then fill a small pill bottle with them. I then just pour a small amount in my mouth and chew them very well. That way they will not oxidize as they would quite fast in a coffee grinder. I never heat them either.
I mix a whole pale-full together and freeze them in separate Ziploc bags with 2 cups of seeds in each bag.
Take a bag out of the freezer as needed. They are really great also to carry around just in case you get very hungry. Friends that I am with will ask me for a swig quite often because they are so satisfying and addicting.

#60

Whole flax seed is hard for the body to digest. You can grind it to a meal and use it as part of a hot cereal or a “flour” for keto bread, etc.