About the Zero Carb / Carnivore category

(Genevieve Biggs) #63

Here is the only scientific study done on the issue:


And here is a blog written by a cattle farmer:

(Sondra Rose) #64

Grain fed beef is fattier than most grass finished beef, so I imagine that is the main reason the long time ZCers feel better on grain fed.

I personally prefer eating free-ranging animals who are eating their natural diet. Ruminants are not designed to eat vast quantities of grain or to be confined for months in a feedlot.

(Genevieve Biggs) #65

I’ve read it is largely a myth that commercial cows do not free graze or eat exclusively grain. The farmer’s blog I linked above explains all that much better than I could.

(Sondra Rose) #66

Of course, commercial cows graze. However, 4-6 months or more in a feedlot prior to slaughter is pretty standard for factory-farmed grain-finished beef.


I grew up in the Midwest and witnessed this. Also I have a degree in Agronomy.

(Genevieve Biggs) #67

Thanks for the correction. :slight_smile:

(Steve Stephenson) #68

This is an article describing the author’s view of the results of two studies, but the actual studies are not cited, so we can not read them to verify the claims. Reading the article it’s clear that the author believes the debunked “cholesterol and saturated fat are bad” hypothesis.

This author is definitely biased and has lots of conflicting interests. The focus of his blog post is on the meat quality and nutrient content.

An interesting point is that the omega-3 content of both grass-fed-finished and feed-lot-finished beef is similar and much lower than other foods (e.g., I think, wild caught salmon).

He did not address one very important issue; i.e., that feed-lot excrement is treated as industrial waste and certainly not transported to and spread on crop fields as fertilizer because it would be way too expensive to transport.

For me, that’s the decision point. I want to support a beef raising system that heals our planet, reclaims areas now turning to desert, and sequesters the huge amounts of CO2 necessary to reverse the current cycle of global warming; see Keto diet issues- Environmentally unsustainable? Too expensive? and

Debunking Savory’s critics:

(What The Fast?!) #69

Hi all! I have zero carb questions!

  1. Is anything without carbs okay? Oils, butter, etc?
  2. Is dairy cool? Cheese, etc? I’m guessing no.
  3. Typical keto keeps protein to 1-1.5g/kg LBM…is it the same for ZC? My protein max is pretty low so just thinking about where I’d get fat calories from.
  4. Artificial sweeteners - I’m guessing that one’s a personal choice?

Thanks fam! @amber Shouting out to you since this is your domain!

(What The Fast?!) #70

@LeslieA Are you still doing ZC?? I’d love to hear how it went.

(What The Fast?!) #71

Also, do zero carbers drink keto-aide?

(Adam L) #72

Hi Andrea, there’s heaps of info in this thread including info from Amber & some great successes with just a month of ZC, well worth a read.


Thanks for posting the article about micronutrients if meats vs plants.

(L. Amber O'Hearn) #74

Hi, @KetoLikeaLady! Sorry for the delayed response!

Most people who use the term “zero carb” are, confusingly, not talking about carb count, but about eating only animal sourced food. That’s why I call it carnivore. So plants with zero carbs (e.g. celery, maybe?—anything where all the carbs is fibre is off limits.) are out, and meat with some carbs is in (e.g. liver, shrimp, eggs).

Dairy is contentious. It affects some people more than others. Few would advocate a high carb source like milk. Most are ok with butter. Cheese and cream gets personal.
Artificial sweeteners are advised against.
Protein is to satiety. Measuring macros is advised against, at least at first. We just say emphasise fattier cuts.

How’s it going?


The first time I did ZC I gained 24 pounds so I decided to start eating carbs again. I started out eating 5-10 grams carbs per day and increased the amount of carbs weekly. I also counted calories. By adding carbs back in this way I actually lost weight rather than gained. However, I started getting sick again which I hadn’t been on ZC. In a span of ten weeks I had gotten the flu twice and pleurisy. So I went back to ZC. This time around, I’ve focused on moderating protein and getting lots of fat, and I’m incorporated IF. I’ve lost more weight and dropped 3 pants sizes.

(Norma Laming) #76

I find that really interesting because though I am really interested in experimenting with ZC I have also read of people who gained wait on it, and there are some people who are adamant that they need some carbs to lose weight. I find that odd but you are definitely not alone in your experience.

May I ask if your ZC includes dairy?


Once in a while I may have some kerrygold or some hwc, but for the most part I don’t eat dairy.

(Steve Stephenson) #78

Those are the keys, I believe. I top my 4 oz of ribeye with 4 tbsp tallow (from Fat Works), my 3 scrambled eggs with 2 tbsp butter, and every cup of coffee with 1+ tbsp coconut oil.


I would’ve never believed it if I hadn’t tried it myself. It’s remarkable. :slight_smile:

(Leslie Andersen ) #80

I haven’t been on this forum in a long time. No reason, just busy. I have been active in ZCH and ZIOH, just jumping on FB seemed easier.
Update: I have remained ZC for 15 months! (Started Dec 26,2016) In that time I have never “cheated” and have eaten only from the animal kingdom, with the exception of 1 large coffee with HWC every AM. The improvements in my health are many and undeniable. I haven’t lost or gained any weight, but my body looks more muscular and less flabby. I could stand to lose about 30-40 pounds. I continue to eat dairy. It doesn’t seem to interfere with the health improvements for me and I feel like it has helped me stay the course. I believe that for me individually, staying 100% animal kingdom has become more important than weight loss. Being able to release an obsessive concern about my weight in itself is a huge victory after lifelong yo-yo dieting. I’m just trusting the process, and at some point I think I will probably cut the dairy and experience the loss of that last bit of weight. In the beginning I ate various ZC recipes, with lots of cheese etc. and gradually my hunger has turned away from that toward just cooked meat, and then to mostly just cooked beef with occasional sides of other meat such as wings or seafood. I see a progression there, and feel it will eventually lead to less desire for dairy. The cheese has already drastically lessened. The last holdout will surely be that AM coffee with HWC, and I am sure it is as much the coffee as the HWC. Here are the health improvements I’ve had.

  • I was on meds for BP, Statin for high Cholesterol, and Prilosec for Acid Reflux. I now take ZERO medication and have no health concerns.
    *Have not been sick with with even so much as a cold.
  • Used to have frequent headaches and took Excedrin most days, rarely have headaches now.
  • Started menopause 3 months after going ZC, refused my doctor’s prescription for hormones. Had some mild hot flashes for a few months then all symptoms vanished and it’s been almost a year since I’ve had ANY symptoms.
  • Have been able to walk and hike as if I was a young woman. Can easily walk 8 miles, and went on a hiking trip to Iceland with my kids, and kept up!!
  • Used to have to write everything down to remember tasks etc. at work. My mental clarity is now noticeably sharp! It’s no coincidence that I have had a 35% increase in my wages at work. My most recent performance evaluation stated they have seen an improvement in my efficiency and abilities.
    *my relationships are easy and drama free with less complications. I have developed a calm and peace that allows me to refrain from debate with others when I disagree and just be me, and let them be them.
  • My cravings for sugar and other carbs, is non existent. Following this WOE is easy and even when surrounded by other food at holidays, parties, and potlucks at work, I don’t struggle to remain ZC, or fight mental temptation. THAT is s miracle, as I have fought that my entire life.
  • my sleep patterns have changed. I used to have restless sleep, and consequently needed 8-9 hours for sleeping, which probably only resulted in 6 hours of sleep. Now I sleep soundly and don’t wake up throughput the night. I go to bed and wake refreshed 6-7 hours later and remain sharp all day.
  • My disposition and love of life has changed. I almost always feel happy and grateful to be alive. I love the people in my life just as they are, and no longer feel the need to criticize things that used to bug me. I complain less and appreciate more.
    Sorry this has been so long, writing it all down felt good though even if nobody reads it… Haha!

(Genevieve Biggs) #81

Hi Leslie!! It’s Genevieve from ZCH. I’m glad to see you over here. I thought I was the only one! And congratulations on all the NSVs. :blush::blush::blush:

(Leslie Andersen ) #82

Hi to you also Genevieve! I use to pop in over here frequently last year. There is a lot of good reading here too. All the sudden I realised I hadn’t been here in awhile and decided to stop in and post an update! I love reading things from L Amber O’Hearn and she is pretty active here I think, or at least she was.