A warning!

(Ketoviking) #64

Hey man just checking in to see how your 72 hour fast ended up? How’d you feel?

(Consensus is Politics) #65

I find it so strange how people can be so different. I cant stand bell peppers for instance. They tast like the most bitter thing on this earth. I do love nearly every other pepper there is though :thinking:

As for avocados now… I havnt found one done in a way that i didnt like! Except maybe a bell pepper stuffed with avocado, I doubt even the avocado can overcome that bitterness. But my favoite two ways to eat an avocado is slicing it in big chunks and frying it in some bacon juice, very tenderly, as the become very soft. Or just right out if the package. If you open it the right way you get a convenient little bowl, well 2 of them. I still cant beleive how just a few years ago I used to peel them. Honest, i actually tried peeling them for years :rofl:. Then one day for no reason i cut one to the pit, and around its midsection and gave it a twist!

I’ll take a half avocado, slice through the flesh to the skin without breaking the skin. Making a checkerboard pattern in the flesh that goes all the way down to the skin, this lets my hot sauce seep in, or alternatively holds the salt in place while I eat it with a spoon, right out of that little green bowl.

I often feel a little sad discarding it into the bin. Its like saying so long to a loved one :pleading_face:

Keto Vitae!

(George) #66

Hey! I have a few more hours left to go but overall I’m fine, not hungry at all. I got a little hungry yesterday afternoon but quickly went away after I lifted weights. Since it was pretty easy, I’m going to get for the next few days and do another 72 one in the middle of next week.

(Bunny) #67

And that probably did not even put a dent in your health reserve.

The other thing is you took some stress off your HPA axis (depending on how long you have been carb restricting?), hence lethargic, that is why it is good to carb up some times, it also can help you lose more weight.

For example I once ate a whole tub of regular ice cream almost a gallon and the weight still came flying off, to me that was strange.

(Marianne) #68

What flavor? :laughing:

(Bunny) #69

Chocolate of course :hugs:

(Marianne) #70

Yeah, that’s me, too.

(George) #71

This is extremely helpful, thanks so much!!

(Keto butts drive me nuts) #72

Health reserve? Like my power up against wreck it Ralph?

(Consensus is Politics) #73

You hit on something I’ve been thinking a lot of lately. What happens when someone fat adapted (for over a year lets say) eats a high(ish) carb meal?

Not too long ago, one of the grand kids had stayed with us over night. She is 5, and wanted a “family fun night” (she just saw it on some TV show and that family was having a good time [lmao]). So I figured what the hell. I ordered a few pizzas. We played Uno. She had a great time. Until… She saw I was eating some pizza too! She knew my diet. She was shocked, and immediately scolded me. I assured her I would be fine, and not to worry about the diabetes coming back.

An hour later I got to thinking. What is my blood sugar right now? So I tested. It was 158. Normally never above 100ish. But then I’m never eating so many carbs.

So the thing that’s been on my mind; however, is this… Just how long would it take to get carb adapted again if I had to? Seeing as I’ve been fat adapted for well over a year now, I went from being insulin resistant T2DM, to being insulin resistant glucose sparring(?) due to fat adaptation.

I’ve tested this thought a few times. Had something carby, like a slice of pizza, and measured my BG, showing up at 130-150 range. Jump on my stationary bike for 20 minutes and its back down into the 90’s. Checked about every 15 minute after that for 2 hours and it remained on a downward trend to about 80 and stayed there.

I’m curious about studies on this. Just how long would it take a ketonian to actually go native again? This would also be testing T2DM. How long for it to re-appear? Obviously my BG reading at first glance proves my T2DM is still present, maybe not. It could just be the glucose sparring caused by my near zero carb intake for 16 months?

Someone must have looked into this by now. Any links?

Keto Vitae!

(Karim Wassef) #74

When you’re fat adapted, you actually become insulin resistant but in a good way and it’s temporary.

Let me explain.

When you’re not taking on carbs, your glucose drops and your body switches over to using ketones. Mostly.

There are obligate glucose consuming cells: red blood cells, internal part of the kidneys and some brain cells. These cells don’t have mitochondria and must use glucose. At this point, the body hormonally adapts to a low level of glucose by making sure that all cells that can use ketones ARE using ketones. It does this by making them insulin resistant so any glucose available goes to those cells that cannot use ketones.

Those are a minority of your total cells but the body prioritizes glucose for them and signal everyone else to stop accepting glucose = ketone usage only/mostly. This is why they are insulin resistant but not in a bad way.

Then you take in a ton of carbs or protein… suddenly there’s a glucose spike, and insulin goes up, but the majority of your fat adapted body isn’t interested in the glucose… so it stays high.

Eventually, your obligate consumers of glucose will use it, and at the same time your other cells will be pulling on ketones. In the meantime, the high insulin and glucose shut down glucagon and ketone production… so ketones plummet. Once they get low enough, the liver basically signals the insulin resistant cells to switch over to glucose… and then they start sucking down the glucose fast!

This happens very quickly once ketones drop because the number of fat using cells is so much more than the sugar users. So once they get on board, they will drain the glucose quickly… they become very insulin sensitive.

Then glucose drops fast and the liver triggers glucagon again and makes ketones… then you get back to normal.

It’s a rollercoaster and the liver is the master controller. It looks weird but it’s an amazing dynamic orchestra.

(Bunny) #75

Had you of jumped on that stationary bike before you ate that pizza it probably would not have put a dent in your ketosis and maybe even blood sugars if you are highly insulin sensitive? HOMA-IR?

(Ketoviking) #76

Sorry I’m gonna be the guy to make you spell it out for learning sake. I’m trying to understand why it would make a difference if he did exercise before he ate carbs if he was fat adapted. If your body is already running on fat despite your physical output why would using more energy cause any difference before consuming carbs? I’m trying to understand this for my hike this weekend. If I start hiking and midday hit a granola bar or something of the like will it just be consumed quickly or will it throw the process out of whack.

(Bunny) #77

Dr. Peter Attia is a pioneer in the ketogenic lifestyle and has been doing this a very very longtime (that is why I observe him closely) so he is definitely fat adapted, so this may answer your question?

”…(The especially astute reader will realize some of this glycogen debt will be replenished by protein and glycerol, the latter of which is liberated by lipolysis – see post on fat flux for a primer)…” …More

(Consensus is Politics) #78

‘If’ I regain my insulin sensitivity, I now have a new weapon in my arsenal, ‘if’ I think I may end up eating carbs, I just might be ok ‘if’ I deplete my glycogen?

I’m smelling a awful lot of ‘if’ with that plan. But I’m game. I’m gonna keep that idea queued up for the next time.

Keto Vitae!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #79

When the muscles become fat-adapted, they become physiologically insulin-resistant; that is, they down-regulate their insulin receptors, so as to spare glucose and ketone bodies for those cells that need them. I don’t see them suddenly becoming less resistant just because we ate a bit of extra carbohydrate. So I would fear raising my insulin level, since that had a large role to play in the metabolic disregulation that made me decide to go ketogenic in the first place.

I suspect that these statements about what a body does when we eat extra carbohydrate are the best guesses of someone who hasn’t thought everything all the way through.

(Consensus is Politics) #80

Which is why I’m searching for studies on the subject :wink:

(Karim Wassef) #81

Not sure where the confusion is?

Bunny’s response is basically that a depleted glycogen just allows the incoming glucose to be stored as glycogen. Basically, there’s less excess to cause blood glucose to spike.

My response was basically a known response of temporary insulin resistance when fat adapted.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #82

I would have thought that increased insulin would be required to bet the muscles and liver to take up glucose in order to store it as glycogen . . . hmm. . . .

(Karim Wassef) #83

Yes. Both things are true. Insulin is released and the glucose is converted to glycogen but this is a very small amount. The rest is blocked by temporary insulin resistance.

For example, I can eat a net 30g carb meal and my blood glucose can go to 100 and stay there for 8-12 hours… it slowly dissipates only when my ketones drop below one.