A newbie trying it again

(Stan) #1

Hi,
I’ve been on full keto for about a week and I am losing weight. I don’t weigh myself, but my wife and I can see it, and I feel it. No real carb yearnings. Great.

I have a few questions:

  1. I have this list of keto friendly vegetables. And things like cabbage: 100 grams and 3 grams carbs. Can it really be so good? This means I could eat rather a lot of cabbage in a sitting. I mean, I’ve read the part of the book dealing with this several times, but it just seems generous. So, mainly I am looking for confirmation from a human that I am not missing something. Is the rest just fiber?

  2. Man, I am tired. I am an active older guy and just biking to the store can feel like the end of a marathon. I have read 1 or 2 weeks of this and then your body gets used to using fat. Anybody have other takes on this or is this what most people experience?

  3. Been using MCI from coconuts. First and before the diet, it seemed like a challenge for my body, but now I digest it well. This is positive, but just checking to see if others have this experience.

  4. I feel pretty full-ish quite a bit of the time. Which is good. I do not have to use discipline to not eat more than I should or to avoid certain foods. On the other hand, I feel full-ish quite a bit. Does this also fade away?

thanks in advance for any input.

(Joey) #2

@Kravitz Welcome to the forum! If you’ve tried low-carb before, then technically you’re not a newbie :wink: A few replies…

  1. Cabbage is a very friendly low-carb veggie. Sauerkraut is even better since the carbs have been “digested” by the lactobacillus bacteria during fermentation. But in general, too much of anything can be too much of anything … especially given how much CO2 release cabbage can inspire in many folks.

  2. Being tired is likely your mitochondria not having yet switched from gas to diesel (carbs to fat). It takes time … most certainly longer than a week or two. Give it time, you’ll adapt and be much more energetic for it.

  3. Not into MCI personally, but many others have had good experiences so I’ll get out of the way and let you hear from them.

  4. The full’ish feeling fading away? Hard to say except that most people (myself included) lose that “hungry/hangry” sensation almost entirely. I don’t recall being hungry (in the way I was for the first 6+ decades of life) at any time between meals during the past 3+ years after cutting out the carbs. If, however, you mean feeling “full’ish” immediately after eating, that’s another matter entirely. Yes, I typically feel very full after a meal and often wonder why I ate that much - except that food tastes so awesome, when it is time to eat I really enjoy it.

Hope some of this helps. No doubt you’ll hear other points of view, which is what makes this forum so interesting and helpful to so many.

Keep us posted on your progress!

(Robin) #3

Congrats on jumping back on the horse. Of course, I don’t know the amount of cabbage you are talking about, but I know it is a fave among keto folks for just that reason.

Tired is an often heard refrain. That should pass. Eventually you’ll be writing about how much energy you have!

Lack of appetite or not feeling hungry: Normal. Carbs produce those sugar spikes and crashes that we used to associate with meaning we are hungry. We forgot what true true physical hunger feels like. So when that goes away, we think we aren’t hungry. Which is a real blessing when starting any “diet”. You will learn the difference between cravings (mental/emotional) and needing to eat. In fact you will eventually sit down to eat simply because it’s time to eat. I can remember the first time (after going keto) that I felt my stomach say, “Hey! I’m running on empty!” I realized I had not felt true hunger in many years.

You and your body are going to become good friends who listen to each other.

Sounds like you are off to a fabulous start. You got this!

#4

Welcome! You already got good answers, so I’m just saying “hi.”

(Little Miss Scare-All) #5

I remember my first couple weeks on Keto. I was soooooo full all the time, that I was actually wondering if I had some type of stomach flu :rofl:

To be totes honest with you, after those first 2 weeks, I couldn’t look at bacon, smell bacon or think of bacon without my stomach turning. But that feeling did subside. I realized I was putting too much fat into my stomach, and I cut it back a little and it helped. But that amount is different for everyone.

It’s funny because induction on most diets leaves you feeling starving and ready to eat the carpet out of desperation. Keto did the opposite for me, which like you said, is great. I’d rather be turned off by eating than counting the seconds down until the next u satisfying carb meal. But fear not, you’ll start to feel not so full constantly. You’ll just feel satisfied.

#6

Hi there!

Yes, I would eat a lot of cabbage (preferably red cabbage, but other types too), sprouts as well.
I usually steam it for few minutes before fying it in light olive oil, butter and garlic, often combined with smoked pancetta/bacon. Cabbage can ‘block you up’, so chew well!

Your energy levels will improve- make sure you get enough healthy fat and protein.

I occasionally use C8 & C10 MCT oil in coffee or green tea as a ‘Bullet Proof’ brunch replacement.
It blows the head off me metaphorically, so can be good if I need to be more alert/have been tired.
I started using it less and less though than previously, just naturally.

Apart from that, sleep when you’re tired, eat when you’re hungry, drink when you’re thirsty.
Avoid processed food like the plague (OK, sausages and bacon OK in moderation).

Good luck!

#7

My experiences and thoughts were surely very different from yours!

  1. It’s not generous, you probably can’t even afford a single kg of it and 1 kg vegs is tiny if you ask the old veggie-lover me… That was my biggest hardship on keto. Fortunately there are tricks and one can change…

  2. I mostly heard about this when it’s some serious exercise (though IDK how steep is the road… and I am not old yet) but it surely can happen with less too. I felt no problem at all but maybe because I was very used to using fat for energy and maybe I wasn’t particularly active when I went keto…? Honestly, I don’t remember. I surely did my walks and tiny cycling but that’s so not serious that it was just as fine as normal. Lifting came later and half day hiking was before…
    This should get fixed eventually, your body faces a serious change and exercise performance tends to suffer, it’s known.

  3. I felt hungry on keto before fat-adaptation and never full, thanks heaven! I hate being full. I like to be perfectly satiated :slight_smile: And that can be all over the place. It definitely wasn’t something straightforward for me. I always needed biggish meals, fat adaptation took away my strong attention seeking out of blue hunger… But I have hungrier days and I have less hungry ones. Less carbs and better items (satiating effect of different items is quite individual, one should figure it out. protein usually helps but it’s not that simple) do help but there is some big random factor on it still. Probably not random, I just can’t figure out the reason. Life is just too complex.

When I made a drastic woe change, it’s possible that my body gets a bit confused (only happened on carnivore) and I tend to eat too little especially compared to norm. It always passes in my case. But if I eat very well, the most satiating way I can, I can expect a pretty easy satiation most of the time. But I can never know…

And it’s not just the amount but the… density? I mean how big part of my meal is fat, volume or weight wise. I never had any problems with quite high fat (beyond overeating, I don’t like that but sometimes it feels good, I just hate being wasteful and eating wrong) - but when I took away my high volume vegs on carnivore, I couldn’t handle the usual amount (be it calorie percentage or grams). I missed the neutral low-cal stuff soaking up the fat and got slightly nauseous. I even ate way less than before then but still couldn’t handle my usual beloved 65% fat (and way less grams than before). So I went below but it passed in weeks anyway :slight_smile:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Yes, it can, particularly if you are counting net carbohydrate intake as opposed to total intake, which would include fibre. (The rationale for excluding fibre is that it is indigestible.) This is why leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables, such as broccoli and cauliflower, are recommended on keto.

Yes, this is normal. You have deprived your muscles from glucose as a fuel, and right now they are limping along on ketones. When you become fully fat-adapted, they will be able to metabolise fatty acids, and your strength and endurance will return. Explosive power takes longer to return, but it eventually does, as well. But fat-adaptation generally takes six to eight weeks, not a mere one or two, sorry.

Yes, too much MCT oil, especially at first, does cause digestive problems, but people do come to tolerate it better.

This is part of the beauty of a well-formulated ketogenic diet, that the appetite hormones start functioning properly, since elevated insulin is no longer interfering. Let your body dictate how much to eat; don’t restrict calories intentionally. As you slowly consume your excess stored fat, your appetite will gradually increase, so that your food intake will take up the slack. That feeling of satiation is likely to remain a reliable guide to how much to eat, so long as you continue to eat a ketogenic diet.

#9

Great news that you are trying again. I’m only in Week 4 and can relate to your tiredness. I discovered that I was not eatting enough. I felt full but I was only eating 800-1400 cals per day. I ended up really exhausted and didn’t understand why.

I would really recommend tracking your calories for a few weeks just to get the hang of the diet.

I don’t always count, bit sometimes I’m really hungry in the evening, ill have done a big workout, been on my feet all day, and when I add up what I’ve eaten it adds up to 1500 calories. I need 2300 minimum.
I’ve been exercising every day and still loose weight if I eat 2600cals.
If I eat much less I just feel tired the next day.

(Marianne) #10

I would eat it to taste, not to volume just because something is low in carbs. When we used to eat vegetables, I would put a package of shredded cabbage in with our 73/27 hamburger and saute it together. It would absorb the hamburger fat and was delicious - very satisfying!

If you feel tired, I’d eat more. You are just starting your journey and are actively exercising on top of it. Your metabolism is switching to fat burning, however, in the beginning I believe you have to feed it really well so that it is not wanting and has the proper fuel readily accessible. It took me 3-4 months to become fully fat adapted. (It may take you less; we are all different.) Before that happened, I would tire more easily and sometimes experience being out of breath and a more rapid heart beat. When I became fat adapted, I could identify it the moment it happened. All those things went away, I had tons of energy, wasn’t hungry, and could go all day on one meal.

I don’t think feeling full is a bad thing as long as full means satiated and not overeating. There is a difference.

Good for you for staying off the scale!!! Many people have to weigh daily or more. It’s not necessary and can mess with your head. As you say, you can tell by your appearance and clothes how you are doing. That’s enough.

Good luck to you!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

To me, the difference is summed up in a remark by one of my French professors, to the effect that Americans tend to say, “I’m full,” whereas the French tend to say, “I’ve had enough.” This was at a point where the current dietary advice was affecting American eating habits, but had not yet made it to France.

Anyway, it reflects my experience. Before keto I ate until I was stuffed and was still hungry. Now, I eat until I don’t want more, and am a long way from being stuffed.

#12

I’ve read some sources that advise avoiding red bell peppers on the ketogenic diet, but I’ve found (by monitoring acetone keto levels), peppers as long as used in moderation, e.g. stir fied with mushrooms and another cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli/aparagus/cabbage etc., that this will ‘dilute’ the carb contingent of that food, and you will stay in ketosis; as well as having already cooked left-overs for brunch next day.

I’m going to experiment with carnivore only in August, but I know I’m going to miss aspects of the ‘ketovore’ diet. We’ll see how it goes.

#13

That’s a great mindset.
My body seems to have its own ‘ive had enough’ warning system. I get hickups now when I’ve had enough. It’s never happened before. But now its most meals. Especially if I bulk the food out harder salads like celery.

#14

Yes, for the French, one egg is always enough. :laughing:

#15

I always went for satiation (always got it on high-carb too, I don’t stay hungry), fullness is usually not pleasant and I may be super hungry with a very full stomach (rare as my stomach capacity is pretty big) and I usually get very satiated waaaaay before I could be truly full. But I have some fullness feeling, often when my stomach is empty, I don’t know what that is but it’s irrelevant. Fullness doesn’t matter except I MUST stop eating when full so it’s quite tragic is I am really hungry at that point, I am bad at waiting 15 minutes in that state.
No, I focus on satiation when I want to know when to stop eating. When to start eating is a bit more complicated but there are multiple useful urges and now I know what to do in basically any combo :slight_smile:

“I had enough”, that’s nice. Requires satiation (no hunger and more than that) AND satisfaction (no appetite and more than that).
But I rarely feel something missing unless I mess things up with carbs. Or forget eating enough eggs… Good food choice is key, it’s amazing to see how important is that. I may eat quite okay food but if it’s not right for me, it can mess up things. Other people’s keto isn’t my keto. Hey, my old keto isn’t good enough for me now.

(Stan) #16

I would like to thank everyone for responding, what a generous group! I hope people see this. I am not going to respond to each person, each point, I hope that’s ok. I got a lot of useful advice and some of the confirmations I wanted.

I’m sad to hear I am looking at more weeks of weakness than I thought but valuable! to know. I am on vacation, so I started, hoping to be back to normal energy levels (or better) by the time work starts. I’m a teacher which is not especially physical, but I do tend to stand most of the time, walk around to groups, etc. Not sure how that will go.

I am not eating too much. I think my fullness is related to the new percentages of fat, protein and carbs. Just wanted to let the people who responded to that issue know. Today, suddenly, I noticed some cravings. If I see things like a slice of pizza, suddenly I want it. But if there is no food like that in a film or my visual field, nothing.

I’ve had a lot of emotional issues with food, was overweight as a child, not overweight as an adult, but 10 years of high stress seemed to push me back into childhood relations to food. I’m hoping to break the pattern, though honestly I wish more of the emotions were uncovered by this and coming up so I can deal with them. The cravings aren’t there but I don’t think I’ve dealt with the underlying issues.

Oh, I don’t exercise much at all now. I take everything slow and easy. A little abdomen work. And once or twice a day I do errands or go for a walk. One thing I read was to be kind to yourself while you are transitioning and I am trying to do that. Normally I am more active, tossing in some explosive stuff. Forget explosive stuff. I feel almost like throwing up within 10 seconds.

You guys are great, and thanks for all your help.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

LOL! Did you steal that from The West Wing? :grin:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

You’re likely to be okay with that. It’s generally the runners and the power lifters who seem to notice the weakness the most. I was fortunate that during the early stages of my keto diet I was quite distracted by life events and never really noticed what was going on during my fat-adaptation phase.

(Stan) #19

Once again thanks everyone!!

Another question. I just bought some herring. Cut and weighed for a portion and man it is tiny. When looking at protein portions, do I think of the whole piece/amount or do I figure out how much actual protein is in the type of protein source first, then work out how much I get to eat?

#20

What if you just eat until you get satiated…? I do that.
I personally often track too but I surely won’t stop eating when my body isn’t pleased…

If you eat herring often and want to be aware about your protein intake from it, you can figure it out for a tin and then you know that it’s 20g per tin or something.