Currently on day 3. I’ve been mostly 18/6 or 20/4 for well over a year thanks to Martin Berkhan and his leangains approach in bodybuilding. I did very well through most of the holidays staying keto… until just before mid-December (my birthday falls in there as well). I’ve done an 11 day water/coffee fast before (w/electrolyte supplementation) thanks to info from you all, Dom D’Augostino and Jimmy Moore and Dr. Fung.
Things are going well thus far! Little bit of low carb flu as my body readjusts but overall I’ve had almost no hunger pangs up until this point. My intake will remain largely the same as last time w/occasional HWC added to my coffee/tea. I intend on taking photos every 4 days from the front, side, and face. After day 6-7 I will be taking daily glucose readings (and I wish I could take blood ketone levels but apparently they no longer make them for my meter?? - True Metrix)
Many of my reasons include spiritual closeness, being a great model of discipline and the power of the mind for my two kids, healing my body as a whole, and healing my ankle that I sprained pretty badly (level 2 sprain) 2 weeks ago.
Today is day 4! My early fasting symptoms are definitely not keto flu - but legit sickness - for the past 2 days I’ve had chest and nasal congestion as well as painful coughs. Good news though! It’s on the downslope and it’s helped curb any hunger I might’ve experienced during days 2 and 3 (bonus!), and I haven’t felt sick enough to take anything other than more tea, vitamin C, salt, and a Tylenol last night.
Speaking of salt - I goofed last night and took 1 tsp of salt straight UNDER the tongue and let it dissolve with saliva before swallowing (followed by 2-3 glasses of water). While I likely needed the 2000 mg, taking such a big dose at once caused decent stomach discomfort and slight nausea. I’ll be breaking up the doses from here on out.
Feeling good now though as the remainder of the sickness leaves my body!
Whee!
P.S. My (sick) wife asked if I could get a pizza for her and our kids last night. The smell wasn’t too tempting as I was driving it home, but psychologically my brain was trying to convince me to eat out of enjoyment.
I’ve had a similar experience. Some days I’ll pop a “salt cap” that I picked up from amazon, if I haven’t had any bowel movements recently, that salt cap will get things going again. Once you start eating, you’ll wan to keep the sodium up and, I’ve found that staying away from cheese works best for me. The sodium will keep you regular and keep the food moving through the “tube”.
Cheese! Yes that’s a sensitivity I’ve identified as a whole. Even during my 2 weeks of very loose eating around Christmas, my stomach was less bloated looking (it never felt bloated). After this fast ends I will make a more concerted effort to significantly reduce my cheese/dairy intake.
Day 5 and still fighting this sickness. It comes in waves, but overall I’m headed out of it! Lots of hot tea, as between the cold wave that just hit Florida, the fasting coldness, and the sickness, I’m freezing - haha. Trying my best to limit coffee to once or twice a day as it’s a huge favorite but contributed to reflux during my previous 11 day fast (I was drinking it for over half the day most days).
Started drinking keto-aid yesterday and will start taking a multi either today or tomorrow - last fast was keto-aid and salt only. I may also be adding in quality bone broth after the 10 day mark - thoughts on supplementing or keeping it broth-less for the duration?
In my experience, the bone broth will make the entire thing a little easier to do AND help in the recovery.
Of course the fasting police might come after you since you are not “truly fasting” but I don’t understand their desire to ensure that everyone only does things “their way”. In my mind, if something increases adherence and has other benefits, then it’s a winner in my book.
So, back to your initial motivators for doing this fast, if having bone broth doesn’t violate those motivators, then I see no barrier.
1/7/18 - End of day 6. Sweat an immense amount of water out while sleeping last night as the remainder of the sickness/toxins left with it. Woke up feeling great (90% better sick-wise), but wow did it take a lot of water weight with it! A 2.2 lb drop between yesterday and today - an amount I compensated for with extra salt, a multi, keto-aid, and liquids today. Overall, I started this journey at 5’10", 194 lbs on day 1, and am now sitting at 184.8 from the extra loss last night.
My hunger finally started kicking in a bit last night in mild waves - 2/10 intensity. Mental clarity and energy levels are up big time, leaving the only downside the persistent cold hands/feet unless blanketed!
I’m going to get some bone broth to keep in the fridge in case I feel I need it, but as some of my primary goals are autophagy and spiritual-related, I don’t intend to have any unless needed - except during my first meal at the end. Took a random 5pm BG just for curiosity’s sake, as I would normally only consistently take them in the morning shortly after rising - True Metrix read 74.
Tomorrow’s the first “full” day back at work since before Christmas as I work with 2nd grade kids; I’m fully certain they will test out my fasting energy levels, haha.
For what it’s worth, I always have the cold hands feet when fasting. I have started taking iodine supplements as some reading led me to believe it might help, anecdotal evidence, but it does make a difference for me, especially when using an IF protocol. Once I go over 24 hours or so, it’s cold hands no matter what.
1/8/18 - Nearing the end of day 7. Rough day at work, had to do a lot of reframing bad thoughts and choosing to stay positive. The kids at work were great though!
Energy good, my two kids are sick now though - haha. That’s how it goes sometimes!
No hunger, slight stomach ache at noon for about 20 minutes.
1/9/2018 - weight dropping fast and I’m not entirely sure why so fast. 181.2. Very stressful day at work but it didn’t make me want to eat! I know that fasting is already a stress on the body so I just focused on some extra electrolytes and carbonated water as a “treat” for staying on track despite the crazy day.
End of day 9 - hunger fluctuated between 0-3/10 throughout the day, no issues. Had to carry a 40lb package a ways to throw it in the dumpster and ran around with the kids for a lil. Really trying to limit my exertion to keep my body happy.
Ordered some high quality bone broth and should have it in by early next week - yay! I’ll likely just keep it on hand, I may have some around day 15 even though it’ll temporarily kick me out of ketosis.
As you get closer to the end a light workout might be worthwhile. Dr. Fung says that HGH, adrenaline and other “pep you up” hormones are released during a fast, to ensure you are motivated to move (go out and kill something to eat in order to end the fast). Working out during a fast may be a hack to “take advantage” of being in a fasted state.
Thanks Tim, great idea! I may have to end things a day earlier than intended, but that should work out better than the full 25.
1/11/18 - day 10! Had a decent amount of hunger pangs but nothing too strong or persistent. The kids were semi-crazy at home during the midwife appointment and got pizza as a reward for having an amazing day and holding things together well at the appointment - I didn’t feel very drawn to it despite pizza being one of my faves.
Had a bit of orthostatic hypotension in the evening and made a glass of keto-aid to help.
1/13/18 - Day 12. Yesterday afternoon/evening were a bit rough. A coworker brought a big thing of steak fries in to the classroom (I guess they were leftover fries that nobody else wanted at lunch?) and ate them over the course of 20 minutes. Most of the time during this and past fasts, food sights and smells don’t trigger my desire button, but this time they did! I fought through it though, only to have my wife stop for ice cream on the way home and ask me to hold it for a bit while she drove. This time, however, almost no urge to have a bite - whew!
Hunger pangs felt a bit stronger when they came, maybe a 4 or 5/10 max, but were relatively short lived. The odd thing was that they kept recurring every hour or so, until close to bedtime last night.
Today - less hunger pangs but I find myself just wanting to have something to eat … another odd feeling that I’m not accustomed to during my previous fasts. Also woke up with a small headache and had some orthostatic hypotension, so I took my multivitamins and drank some lite salt in water.
I was feeling good at around noon, so I decided to volunteer at a food bank helping sort meat/various food for a few hours. Instead, I ended up ripping boxes (I volunteered as nobody else wanted it) and smashing them with a compactor and ended up getting a workout in doing so, haha. Came home, felt a bit low-energy’ish, checked my BG (74), had another glass of water and lite salt, and sipped on more water and coffee.
Also - my weight is coming down almost too quickly for my liking, and I’ve been having coffee with HWC most days. I started this journey at 193/194 and this morning after 11 full days heading into 12 I weighed in at 176.2. Kinda freaked out TBH, as I estimate my LBM to be somewhere around 150-155.
@richard - could the weight loss be due to protein breakdown for amino acids if I’m 12 days into a fast and have approximately 25-30 lbs of fat on my frame? I am consuming HWC in my coffee, but nowhere near what the fasting calculator claims I need to approach.
if you have 25 lbs of fat, then the maximum it can apparently contribute is 787.5 kCal/day, and that will be roughly 0.22 lbs a day of body fat that you will be using just to power your day.
800 kCal is a really LOW energy day. Let me put that in a little context. Most men burn 2500 kCal just doing nothing, and then if you go for say a 30 min jog that could mean that you burn an additional 300 kCal.
When people do a fasting mimicking diet they eat 800 kCal and let’s say they have the same 30 lbs of body fat - so they will get about the same from their body fat for a 1600 kCal/day. They can STILL expect to see some slow down in their metabolic rate - because their bodies expect 2500 and get 1600 so they have to make up 900 kCal in arrears. The will do that by slowing you down a little (maybe not heat their fingertips as much, make them sleep a little longer, run their immune system just a little slower). I honestly don’t know how much we can make in cost savings but I’ve seen a few studies observe that we can make up to 500 kCal/day.
This study for example observes a 500 kCal reduction in MBR from people who have lost 20% of their body weight, and a 300 kCal increase in people who increase their body weight by 10%.
OK so people on a FMD have an additional 400 kCal they have to find. … and that is where lean mass comes it. It is our energy store of last option. Basically it’s like throwing the living room furniture on the fire to warm the room when you’ve run out of kindling and wood for the fireplace.
The people eating a fasting mimicking diet will be needing 400 kCal/day in energy from an alternate source and they have tapped their body fat’s ability to contribute - so they will need 100g of amino acids to generate those 400 kCal. Now remember this is someone eating a FMD like Walter Longo’s.
A person with 25 lbs of body fat on a water fast doesn’t have that 800 kCal of food, they are running only on what their body fat can offer - which we’ve established is a little under 800 kCal, for a body that expects 2500 and is willing to make do with 2000 - so potentially 1200 kCal/day of protein = roughly 300g (0.66 lbs).
I would expect in addition to the 0.22lbs of body fat drawn down every day, you could be recruiting 0.66 lbs of protein. Does that match your observed weight loss rate for the past few days?
Personally I wouldn’t water fast for more than a few days with only 25 lbs of body fat.
I have 45 lbs of body fat, I can generate 1428 kCal/day. I’ll only fast for 3 days without supplementing my energy. That will recruit some protein from labile sources, but I can refill that through diet when I break the fast.
Earlier this year I had 67 lbs of body fat and was able to generate 2120 kCal/day and then I was able to do a few 10 day fasts.
1/14/18 - Day 13. After thinking on it and discussing things with my wife, I decided to end the fast today and continue the goal in a modified fashion until the would be 25th fasting day. Ending weight @ 175.6
Thanks for the additional info to chew on, @richard
I don’t think @richard 's fat mobilization formula is an exact thing, but merely a ballpark guideline. Insulin undoubtedly has an effect and if one’s basal insulin level is extremely high I’d expect them to have difficulty hitting the formula’s rate while if one has much lower than typical basal insulin one might be able to significantly exceed the rate.
Instead of trying to calculate how much fat to sustain my fasts, I’ve found monitoring body temperature a useful way to gauge my energy level. If my temperature falls I consume more fat, HWC, coconut oil, etc.
Very much so. The formula is based on a theoretical maximum rate that fat can release energy. Insulin will inhibit that process further. A qualitative measurement like coldness in the extremities is going to be more accurate.
