Zero Acres article on How Vegetable Oils Make Us Fat


(PJ) #1

This website has, irritatingly enough, successfully prevented me saving this article in any form. It’s a bizarre compendium of code behind the scenes. Even Acrobat capture doesn’t recognize it for crap and chops half the pics/graphs in half at page breaks. I finally gave up and you will just have to suffer a web link instead of me uploading the article on this one.

But it’s a nicely, simply written article, with lots of nice images.

PJ


(PJ) #2

PS I found this section interesting (this is a snippet of it)


(Joey) #3

Haven’t had a chance to read yet. But tried to do a Cmd+A to select all, then Cmd+C and Cmd+V to copy/paste. Got it all in here as a giant reply including illustrations … but system says it’s too big to post (82k vs 32k limit?). Sorry!

I guess I could post it as a 3-part reply. But easier for folks to just go to the source link you’ve provided. Thanks.


(PJ) #4

Thanks Joey. I did find a few ways to grab it, but each way somehow left half (not all) the images out. :frowning:


#5

@RightNOW The article can be saved perfectly by using Microsoft Edge browser. Click on Immersive Reader icon on the right side of the address bar or press F9 key to enter Immersive Reader. Then print and save as PDF. The file size is 9.2MB and too large to upload.

__________________________________________________________________________

All Omega fatty acids from oils cause obesity BUT the writer’s understanding of the Science is piss poor. Their conclusions are highly dramatic and not logical. As in swinging left or right.

Omega fatty acids from oils cause obesity because they are very hard to obtain in nature and therefore we absorb these essential fatty acids extremely well. Plus removing the fiber and amino acids from a whole food leads to the storage of these essential fatty acids in adipose tissue instead of muscle and subcutaneously.

Seed oils are also added to animal feed to fatten factory farmed animals. Double whammy for those who also consume factory farmed animal foods.
Animal Feed Oil – Royal Flour Mills


LOL. This picture is too funny since it isn’t factual. Raw nuts and oily seeds contain polyphenols in their skin which activates GLP-1(satiety hormone). The amino acids in raw nuts and seeds will also force the storage of fatty acids in muscle and subcutaneously as I’ve already indicated. The squirrel on the right has been consuming human junk food for a long time.


#6

This makes a lot of sense to me, it chimes with the work by Peter “hyperlipid” Dobromylskyj and Tucker Goodrich

It’s probably worth mentioning that Zero Acre has an interest in making seed oils look bad, they’re trying to come up with a competing product. See https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/02/zero-acre-biotech-fermentation-alternative-to-wasteful-unhealthy-vegetable-oils/


#7

I found this very interesting, thanks for posting it :+1:


(Bob M) #8

Only problem: try it yourself. The idea is that saturated fat is a miracle worker that causes one to have less hunger, as fat cells become insulin resistant. I have tried this every which ways possible, and it DOES NOT WORK. Let me repeat: IT DOES NOT WORK.

Could it work in someone? Maybe. But that person isn’t me.


(PJ) #9

I think there are some cross competing issues in the topic as it is today. In part, the attempt to find a way to ‘intelligently apply’ this to the real world of N=1 humans. That the results are at best inconsistent between people suggest that there is some other concomitant or mitigating factor that is not being addressed. I don’t think it has to mean that Petro’s stuff is inaccurate of course. Something can be valid on its own without the various frameworks built around it being equal.

Seems unrelated, and perhaps is a silly example, but: when someone finally explained lowcarb to me in a way that made it make sense to me, I decided to try it. Everyone I had talked to who tried it, had really great results with it. Including my buddy who was a Fire Dept. Captain who put his whole team on it. So I was getting excited that something might help.

I went lowcarb. Within two days I felt bad. Within four days I felt terrible. By day five I thought I was dying, and before day six arrived I had a massive flu. I went off lowcarb.

Two months later I decided to try it again. Had exactly the same experience. As well as skin eruptions like rashes as part of that, I forgot to mention.

Yeah, nobody I knew had anything but good to say about it but holy ■■■■ it didn’t work for me at all.

Years later, I was ‘lurking’ on a lowcarb forum, sadly perusing the before/after section, wishing. Off and on for a few months.

I decided to try a ‘test’… again. Because I was an incurable optimist, obviously. I did three weeks of pretty much ‘bacon and eggs, and pepperoni and cheese’ lol. And it was miraculous. And it actually cured, I mean to zero symptoms, my severe asthma, severe allergies (both medicated), severe acid reflux, adult acne, a lot of brain fog, some joint aching, mysterious rashes, and a few other things. Like all at once. Like some kind of impossible miracle.

Talk about a completely opposite response!!

It was just a trial. I had already planned to go off it. I spent a year gradually collecting pans let alone appliances – as I did not cook at all – and LC specialty ingredients I saw people using on the lowcarb forum (lowcarber.org).

One night, I woke up at like 2am and a voice (an actual voice!) told me if I did not go on that diet I was looking at online right now, I would be dead within three months. This was the closest to a religious experience I’d had in awhile. The next day I took 14 copy paper boxes of food from my house to my grandmother’s house for the family to take, and went lowcarb.

I lost 170# in a ridiculously short amount of time. Took up working out. Amazing.

Then my heart valve finally failed, which was totally unrelated and changed everything but never mind. The point is, that “eating lowcarb” had very DIFFERENT results on me the first TWO times I tried it, then it had had on anybody I knew.

Now, I think it’s because I just had so much toxic crap in my fat cells that my body was taking advantage of the growing burn of them to prioritize the bad content to get it out of me, and all of the horrible symptoms and flu and so on were part of that. But I didn’t know that. Nobody I knew had anything like that. Certainly nobody warned me about that.

So had I had a conversation about it at that point I’d have been like no man, lowcarb does not work for me at all in fact it makes me horribly sick.

So yes I realize we here do know that can happen. My point is just that it wasn’t about lowcarb or its merits, it’s that there were other factors going on with me – and it turns out some others I didn’t know, but mostly NOT with everyone I did know or hear of – that caused the result to be pretty different.

I suspect something like that is going on with the low-PUFA or focus-SFA dietary attempts. I don’t know what exactly. I just think there probably is.

PJ


(Joey) #10

@RightNOW Wow, what a path you’ve traveled through carb-restricted keto. A powerful n=1 story. Thanks for making it available to others who could learn from your experience. :vulcan_salute:


#11

Were you consuming pure butter(assuming) or mixed with some other food?


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #12

This is a very good point, and one that is very easy to neglect. We need to remember to mention this to newcomers.

Another thing that sometimes happens to newcomers to keto is a Candida die-off. This was being discussed in several threads on these forums a few years ago. I gather from the posts at the time that, like the toxin-dumping you went through, a Candida die-off is a highly unpleasant experience. You would probably have known if you had a yeast infection, so I’m only mentioning it as another example of something we don’t always bear in mind, but which can affect people’s experiences when they embark on a low-carb keto diet.


(Bob M) #13

Ok, this where the article above goes off the rails.

They are comparing a very low fat diet with a diet that’s not very low fat. The very low fat diet almost always “wins”. Why? There are many reasons. But none of them involve the type of fat.

When The Croissant Diet (TCD) came out, many people (including me) tried higher saturated fat, lower PUFA. (In fact, I’ve been eating a lower PUFA for YEARS.) The overwhelming majority gained weight and go no satiating effect.

And these were “our people”, meaning they were low carb/keto.

Take my case. I started lc/keto on 1/1/14 went from size 43 inch pants to 34s. Tried many different versions of low carb/keto, and found my best results using high protein, low fat keto with some longer (>24 hour) fasting thrown in.

Then I tried the TCD. I gained weight so quickly that my wife freaked out. The weight I gained was all in my belly. I blew past my 36 inch pants and had to go buy 38 inch pants. I started in the fall or maybe winter, and by summer, I could no longer wear any of the shorts I had worn the year before, and had to go buy new ones.

Saturated fat causes me to gain weight.

I went back to eating high protein, low fat, and it’s taken me two YEARS, but I’m back to where I was before.

I personally do not believe the protons theory applies to human beings. Or if it does, it’s minor or possibly only major for those with a particular genetic composition.

And if you delve into this area long enough, you see comments like we shouldn’t be eating eggs, because eggs have high LA (linoleic acid), and therefore these would cause one to overeat. In my opinion, that’s garbage. I’ll bet good money that you can find the eggs with the highest LA content and eat nothing but them, and you will NOT gain weight.

While I believe the protons theory does not apply to humans, if it does apply, it still does not explain:

  • Why higher protein is almost always more satiating than lower.
  • Why someone like me gets a tremendous satiation from eating high protein, low fat.
  • Why some people easily go over the “high” LA daily limit, but do not gain weight.
  • Nutrient density.
  • Why many of us gain weight eating high saturated fat, low PUFA diets.
  • Why rising PUFA content CAUSES obesity (instead of being correlated with it).

Take something like eggs. They have high protein and high nutrient density. To me, this likely completely overwhelms the PUFA content.

Now, I know if you watch the Eades “New theory of obesity” video or hear Peter D. discuss this concept, the idea is that if we ate fries (fried potatoes) that were fried in tallow instead of seed oils, everything would be OK.

So, I made my own tallow from beef suet, so I could ensure it was very high in saturated fat. Then I made Alton Brown’s recipe where you cook the potatoes the day before then cool them down, refrigerate them, and fry them the next day. I got a few potatoes, a few pounds of them. My wife and I ate the fries while also eating hamburgers.

The result? We ate ALL of the fries. Several pounds worth. After already eating hamburgers. And I would’ve eaten more of them if I could. No satiety whatsoever. None.

While I’m not going to go out and start chugging soybean oil, and I’ll still read labels to avoid seed oils, I no longer freak out if I eat some.

And if you want to hear two experts who agree that fat is bad, but because the oils simply make things more palatable and not because they have some special effect on cells, take a listen to this:


#14

The Croissant(wheat) doesn’t get blamed!?

Butter has been shown to increase GLP-1 in humans.

It may also be that isolated fats are bad and whole foods are good.


#15

The degree of processing required to get oil from seeds has always been a concerning area for me. I think the margarine making YouTube video has traumatised me :face_with_raised_eyebrow:. Industrial fats have confusing chemistry. Human biochemistry and physiology seems to have many levels between the human in the environment and the human fat cell internal mechanisms complicated by each human who has reached their current state following many deliciously complex paths.

My gut goes toward simplification. Starting with an elimination diet foundation that might even be based on an electrolyte supported extended fast. Then rebuild and test from there. But I am only an interested amateur, and like PJ’s experience, seem able to mess up (adversely react to) the seemingly most simple tasks in preparing to start an n=1.

My goal is flow-state LCHF where the inputs are all dialled in with adverse reactions mitigated, then progress without conscious continuous thinking about food.


#16

Just another n equals one anecdote, but I’ve found it very easy to gain fat when I include shorter chain fats. I intentionally eat butter, cream, coconut oil when I notice I’m getting too lean (due to some health stuff it’s hard for me to maintain weight, I aim to keep BF% around 18%)
Eating the same amount of tallow or cocoa butter just makes me feel warm and energised.
I’ve been avoiding vegetable oils and processed foods since, like, for ever, so no idea how that’d affect me (and not willing to find out either, not even in the interest of science)

Peter Dobromylskyj’s proton posts say it’s because of different F/N ratios, but I’m not anywhere smart enough to say whether there’s anything to that theory. I do find it striking though that it so neatly fits my anecdata
Though as I said I’m dealing with some health issues, which possibly could make me an outlier


(PJ) #17

“Zen and the art of eating”


(Wendy) #18

Ck out Ben Bikman PHD. On uTube or Instagram.


#19

I used to eat potatoes boiled in skin with butter. My experiences are like yours. Carbs and fat, no satiation effect but nice so I can eat a ton. After a satiating carni meal too, carbs do that to me. I never noticed it matters what kind of fat or non-animal carbs, I always have this.
(I can fry my potatoes too, in anything, it doesn’t matter.)


(Robin) #20

When you eat an orange, eat the orange. Right up my alley