ZC Didn't agree with me - at all


(In a #ketomarriage with @peggaloon) #1

Hi all!

Recently, I decided to do a small experiment into carnivore / ZC for the benefit of my leaky gut and allergies. I started with the aim of 12 weeks, but ended it abruptly at 9ish weeks (65 days to be precise) I was eating meat, salt, pepper, and water only.

I experienced progressively more urgent and painful BMs. What started out as looseish movements ended up in explosive liquids. I stopped ZC when I was out and had an accident. I honestly have never been so embarrassed in my life.

My guts were gurgly all the time.

My eczema got worse.

I lost no weight whatsoever.

My body odour was incredibly pungent, my urine stank, and my tears were sticky and stung my face.

And worse of all, my baby who is exclusively breastfed became increasingly hungry. She was feeding every hour or so and crying on the breast, tugging at it. She dropped percentiles in weight and never seemed satisfied.

I have since started going to a naturopath, and will update as more information about my health becomes apparent.

Did anyone else have a similar experience? I keep reading all these glorious stories about ZC increasing their health and wellbeing, whilst I never felt so bad in my life by the end. Many have cited the idea which carbohydrates are never necessary, but upon the introduction of carbs again, my baby became happier, and my stomach eased. I went back to regular bowel movements within 2 days.


(Katrine Flindt) #2

I am very inexperienced with keto diet yet, but as a MD I might think that:
Possibly during breastfeeding wouldnt be the optimal time to do a radical shift in eating - not too fast anyway.
When you breastfeed you need loads of energy for yourself - and for making the milk. And you need lots of rest and as little stress as possible.
And - for shifting into ketosis - you need loads of rest and caring for yourself as well. And perhaps breastfeeding would even increase insulin-resistance. Because the breasts might need a higher level of glukose (would anybody know about this?) (I am only guessing here)ā€¦
So: you may have been getting too little calories and stressing yourself and your baby out of impatienceā€¦
That would actually be my best guess.

Advice would then be:
Do it slowly
Add more fats and keep a good protein intake
And remember bonebroth to keep the gut in good shapeā€¦


(Chris) #3

This is the first ā€˜failureā€™ story Iā€™ve heard where the person lasted longer than a month. Thank you for sharing.

What kind of meats were you eating? Did you change cuts, quality, or animal source at all? Did you attempt any organ meats? Did you track intake at all?

Iā€™m so sorry you went through such a tough time, and I hope you feel better.


(In a #ketomarriage with @peggaloon) #4

Thanks for replying! I think youā€™re right, my body is under a lot of stress (I know my adrenals are off the chart with lack of sleep and just taking care of little ones). I am just eating real food now and will try to focus on my allergies and baby weight once I wean my daughter. At the moment, she needs to come first.


(In a #ketomarriage with @peggaloon) #5

I donā€™t know if I am to be flattered or embarrassed by that!

I ate mostly beef, but a range of cuts. I ate chicken, turkey, pork, and lamb. No tracking or organ meats. Iā€™m feeling much better now Iā€™m not on the toilet all the time!


(Nathan Toben) #6

It seems like any candida or other harmful gut bacteria would have died off in that amount of time unless there were sugars added to the meats consumed. And yet, OP describes continued diarrhea.


(Chris) #7

Diarrhea on carnivore can often be caused by two things, barring medical issues: overconsumption of rendered fats, and drinking fluids within an hour or so of eating. These are common.


(Nathan Toben) #8

I remember you saying this about drinking fluids and consuming meat. I am finding that meat is actually surprisingly hydrating. As a highly active person, I have to keep my electrolytes balanced so I DO salt my meats but much more sparingly than when I was just starting out. Iā€™m finding a good balance where I donā€™t drink fluids on either side of my meals and though the salt does kind of make me thirsty, its more of a salty taste on the tongue that triggers that thirst instead of it being true thirst. THen, as the meat is digested, I feel more hydrated and then eventually start trickling in water. This has not only helped my energy level and my bodyā€™s ability to absorb the meat in totality but I think my electrolytes remain more steady and my digestion is better.


(Bob M) #9

I know fats can cause a problem. l went to a retreat where the only thing I could eat for bfast was fatty sausage, so I ate a lot of them. I was not ready for that amount of fat.

Not drinking with meals? That would take retraining.


(Edith) #10

What about too much protein and not enough fat? Isnā€™t there some kind of problem when the meat is too lean?


(Chris) #11

The common advice I hear is ā€œyour body will tell youā€.

I still have some bodyfat to lose, so I donā€™t really worry about ā€œenough fatā€. I eat a lot of top round, sirloin, and ground beef which doesnā€™t always end up too fatty (even if I buy 70/30 a lot stays in the pan).

I have had as much as 450g of protein from meat in a day with no issues that I could see (bodyweight is 165-175 pounds currently). However while my hand was injured and I wasnā€™t training, I ate a lot, and also had a damn good amount of heavy cream which caused fat gainā€¦I advise against going crazy with dairy- use it as a small treat if you want but limit the stuff.


(Elizabeth ) #12

I can tell you that when you go from eating fiber to cutting it out completely, it could take your colon several months to learn to reabsorb the fluid that the fiber was sucking up. Thereā€™s also dozens if not more metabolic processes that are changing over, from burning glucose to burning fat. You also have a different hormonal balance because of the prolactin and oxytocin in your system, I would probably recommend you going to a keto diet and slowly starting to remove the vegetables if you want to try this way of eating again. Normally just going cold turkey is the best for people because of the emotional and mental addiction to carbs, but since youā€™ve already tried that, maybe stepping down slowly might be better.


(Bob M) #13

Personally, I think right after or around child birth is a tough time to make changes. Iā€™d try Whole 30 first, which will remove a lot of triggers. Then, after some time, think about keto or carnivore.


(Frank) #14

Square peg in a round hole maybe? Not every woe will fit everyone. Sounds like standard keto works for you at this point in your life and so be it. Maybe some other time. Maybe not. Itā€™s all good.


(Brian) #15

I am curious about the change of diet. How radical was it? Was it going from vegan or vegetarian to full carnivore? SAD to carnivore? Paleo to carnivore? Keto to carnivore? (You may have addressed your history elsewhere, Iā€™m sorry if Iā€™m asking something thatā€™s common knowledge.) I would imagine it would be the most intense when making the most radical of changes and the least of an issue when gradually moving from a heavily meat based keto diet. But thatā€™s only my speculation.

I definitely appreciate your telling your experience. I am leaning towards heavier meat consumption than Iā€™ve ever done in my life but am not sure I could do full carnivore. Iā€™m liking where I am now but if I do decide to lean closer to carnivore, I probably wonā€™t do it quickly, itā€™ll be over some time of just reducing plants foods.

I know people talk a lot about how to get into maintenance. Iā€™m kinda sneaking up on it. Iā€™m eating right now pretty close to how I think I would eat if I were at my desired weight. Iā€™m not there yet, I have another 15 to 20 pounds to go and itā€™s coming off very slowly,maybe something like a pound or two a month. Seriously, when I get to where Iā€™m going, I canā€™t imagine that there will be much of a change at all to enter maintenance. Iā€™ll pretty much be there.

I know that seemed irrelevant to the discussion but thatā€™s about how I would view going carnivore. It wouldnā€™t be a big change. It would be very gradual and other people might not even notice. If it worked well, Iā€™d hang out for a while. If it didnā€™t, Iā€™d move back towards the last place that did work well. In your case, that sounds like keto, but again, I donā€™t know your history.

Maybe Iā€™m too lazy but Iā€™m just more of a ā€œroll with itā€ person.

Good luck! And thanks again for sharing!


#16

I guess the hormonal upheaval, new baby and breast feeding was maybe a case of too much all at once.

I got to carnivore via keto, a tummy bug and a period of extended fasting. When I started eating again, I just didnā€™t reintroduce all the ā€˜other stuffā€™ and stuck to animal products. It was a breeze. Except for a bit of head game boredom, and a sustained taste for chocolate :wink:

Maybe the approach vector and system clearing beforehand is fundamental.


(Erica) #17

After my first baby, I went ā€˜low carbā€™ right away (like while still in the hospital, I only ordered steak and broccoli for every meal lol). I didnā€™t know about keto at the time, and was just aiming for under 100 carbs per day with many days being under 50. All my baby weight fell off really fast, but I did continue eating sweet potatoes a couple times a week and plenty of yogurt (I was BFing like you). Maybe while breastfeeding a more general low carb diet would be a good compromise for you and your baby? Just a suggestion.

Or, if you are really worried about quicker weight loss, I once read about someone on keto diet who anytime she had a weight ā€˜stallā€™, would do 1-2 days eating ground beef, with a huge pat of butter, salt and pepper. She said using the pats of butter kept her from ever feeling hungry and she would break her plateau. I have tried it and agree that I actually felt great and wasnā€™t hungry either. ā€¦so maybe if you want to continue the meat thing, add in some fats/butter??

Just suggestions, of course you have to find whatever works best for you and your baby. Good luck!


("Don't call it calories, call it food") #18

We are all so different. I think it is awesome that ZC works for some people, but I am not surprised it doesnā€™t work for everyone :slight_smile:

Commiserations from me for your struggles and hope you continue to feel better.


(Erica) #19

How long does someone do carnivore? Is there no reason to worry about not consuming veggies?


#20

I think we each need to make our own ā€˜risk assessmentā€™ :slight_smile: but there are people who have eaten carnivore/ZC for decades and glow with health.

Iā€™ve been 98% carnivore for 10 months, and my health is improving. Eating carnivore can provide all necessary nutrition, so no need for veg. And as for fibre, well I am doing better without it. :slight_smile: