young female with no priod for nearly decade ` still cannot feel good after one year of carnivore

(Bob M) #21

It’s extremely hard to eat too much protein, enough to create “toxicity”. Possible? Sure. Easy to do eating normal meats, not easy. Heck, for “lunch” (my first meal of the day), I had 10 ounces of lean pork (about 80 grams of protein), AND a serving of whey protein (20 something grams of protein) AND a serving of collagen peptides (about 18g protein) AND whatever protein was in milk. At least 120g protein, and I’ve had many meals with 160+ grams of protein. Nowhere near “toxicity” levels.

You have to work hard to eat enough meat to get “toxic” levels of protein. Very lean meat, a lot of it, and nothing else.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

It’s still a question in my mind whether “rabbit starvation” is really a protein toxicity or a fat deficiency. I wonder if anyone really knows. It’s a question, because the standard narrative allows no room for the notion that eating fat has any benefits.

I agree with you, Bob, that otherwise, protein toxicity is difficult to accomplish. I suspect the only likely scenario could possibly be a bodybuilder who eats a lot of meat and overdoes the protein shakes in addition.

(Mark) #23

Have you researched PCOS? Polycystic Ovary Syndrome

My wife and youngest daughter have it. Some of what you describe sounds similar to the issues they have from that. I believe it can be diagnosed by an ultrasound to look at your ovaries.

#24

I know. It’s even hard for MANY to eat enough protein! Not for some of us.
I don’t need to worry about protein toxicity as I seriously slow down after 4g/kg protein for LBM (and it’s already enough to cause serious problems for most people as far as I know but it’s not my average, just a really high protein day) - but if I ate a ton of meat, it would happen. Some of us overeat protein WAY easier than others. I overeat it all the time, actually but not to a dangerous extent. I still dislike going unnecessarily, wastefully high. I can’t afford it, for one reason. And I overeat fat is I overeat protein.

Yes, it’s easy. It’s already near toxicity levels for me in theory. It’s not about the grams only. My lean bodyweight is tiny.

I can’t do it with lean meat. I need fatty meat like pork shoulders. Fat poorly satiates me so that doesn’t slow me down, in the contrary as it makes my meat tastier. I did my personal records on carnivore with pork shoulder (way over 200g protein, over 250g fat). I still tried to eat as little as possible but with pork shoulder (and eggs, I never can skip my eggs) and too many meals (2 I think), this was that.

As far as I know it’s the latter. There are people eating very much meat but fat too, without any problems.

Oh no, there are other cases. I remember multiple people on this forum reaching it.
It’s not so hard, you yourself wrote about 3.3g/kg protein being some limit and it’s ridiculously easy to reach (especially if someone’s lean bodyweight is tiny). I could do it any day, quite easily. It’s not much food even if it’s fatty. On the other hand, staying below 2g/kg is impossibly hard for me. It’s a tiny food, not even a proper meal. It’s hard enough to stay around 3g/kg for LBM. I need to minimize fat, I need to minimize protein, it’s good I don’t need to care about carbs at least, on carnivore.

But even that limit can’t be so simple as we know some people eating huge amounts of meat without problems. Some handles it better somehow…? Probably.

(Y Z) #25

Yesssss! how were you able to make the connection?!

I have researched PCOS and was actually diagnosed with it during my yearly health visit in February 2023.

I was shocked to find out, - When I was in college, I exercised a lot and dieted, which caused me to lose my period. The ultrasound doctor told me that I had a reduced/deteriorated ovary. (under developed, smaller than it should be)

and, feb 2023, is when I had been on a carnivore diet for 3 months prior.

How are your wife and youngest daughter doing? How do they deal with PCOS? Do they know the reason for developing it and are they on a carnivore diet?

I’m starting to wonder if the carnivore diet is not for me. Maybe I should go back to exercising and dieting. I’m a little skeptical that maybe it’s because of the high fat that led me to develop PCOS. Maybe the carnivore diet is not for me since I’m Asian and my ancestors may have been used to eating low fat foods like fish and rice. What do you think?

but on the other side, i also see the connection::: maybe i have been always been underdeveloped, but carnivore diet helped me gain the proper nutrition thus getting back some more female hormone ? but other parts of my body did not have chance to sync with it lol ?

actually , i feel a little worried

(Y Z) #26

thank you icecrystal.

With carnivore, i have around 23 - 25% body fat percentage.

when i was controlling calorie (exercise and dieting), I have about 18 % body fat

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #27

Its a good question because we do talk about ancesterol diet. For me, and for most Europeans, eating rice and sarchy carbs just makes us more hungry.
We do however have many Asian people here on Low Carb diets that do very well!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

That’s as it should be, for a woman. Not only do the curves look attractive to the opposite sex, but the fat tissue gives you a reserve to fuel pregnancy and lactation.

This is a bit of an aside, but I remember watching, in the early 1970’s, a television re-run of the movie Houseboat. which starred Sophia Loren, and thinking how attractive she was, despite being extremely well-padded. (The word voluptuous comes to mind.) I recently had occasion to watch a clip from the movie and was shocked by how thin she looks by today’s standards. Fifty years of bad governmental dietary advice, and look where we’ve ended up.

#29

Maybe there is some correlation statistically but even so, you are an individual so you should find your own personal best woe… You may be not a typical Asian regarding food. May be you don’t handle fat so very well but if you eat lots of carbs, that triggers different problems? What if you try a lower-fat carnivore diet instead? More meat, less added fat?

#30

Have you checked your iodine levels?

(Mark) #31

My wife really struggles but has been trying to fight it with Keto and exercise. Before keto, pre 2019, she did not have a period for about 10 years or so. Once she had started keto and started being better about her food choices that really helped and she is now pretty regular. However, weight loss has been nearly impossible for her. That remains her biggest struggle. She has done some food sensitivity tests and recently started following Maria Emerich(sp?). She is making a ton of her recipes. She stopped dairy a few weeks back and the scale has shown some slight improvements in her weight.

My daughter is 23 and has put on a lot of weight over the last couple years. She just had her ultrasound last week to officially diagnose her PCOS which we’ve all unofficially knew for a couple years now based on other symptoms. She refuses to take any advice from me and her Mom so far. I hope she gets the help she needs before it gets beyond repair.

Good luck!

#32

23 - 25% sounds good and should definitely be sufficient, I would assume. 18% might have already been too low for you, especially if it was obtained through dieting? I wonder if your body needs more time to heal, more time at a sufficient body fat percentage and with sufficient food intake, after all the dieting you used to do when you were younger?

You might also want to look into Hypothalamic Amenorrhoea, if that might apply to you?
https://www.thehasociety.com/articles/how-i-got-my-period-back-healing-from-hypothalamic-amenorrhea

(Bob M) #33

I think it’s possible. The so-called “rabbit starvation” idea – I think – came about because of explorers who were crossing the US and doing a tremendous amount of exercise (clearing paths, walking, carrying things, creating boats, etc.) and could only catch rabbits. If you’re eating 5,000 calories a day of very low fat, high protein meat, that’s probably not good. At some point, you can’t process all that protein.

But I think for most of us who aren’t doing that, very high levels of protein are probably not going to be realized. Even the original poster was adding butter to her meat, which would alleviate a lot of this.

I wonder if the original poster might be better off with an Amber O’Hearn type of animal fat first, then protein diet? That might also get ketones up, which helps for some.

#34

I used to not be able to stop eating, either. As witnessed by weighing 320 pounds. As soon as I went Keto, I ate to my heart’s content - except for carbs. I watched those closely. I don’t remember how long it took - maybe 10 weeks? - and it all self-regulated. I ate when I wanted food - and low and behold, I felt satiated when I had enough. It was a totally new feeling for me - I had never, ever, felt sated before. It changed my life.

(Sunny S) #35

Look up Sally K Norton, Toxic Super Foods. The easiest thing to do at this point, since you’re struggling so much, is to look up Sally K Norton on Jesse Chappus’s channel.and watch.Here is the link.

My husband and I started on Keto 2019 and moved to carnivore this year. Carnivore may help you, but you may need to address an oxalate problem. I can understand a lot of what you’re going through, certainly not all of it. You desperately need relief. Perhaps this could be a start.
I really feel for what you are struggling with. You need to feel good, great! Do hold on and be encouraged. :heart::pray:

(Edith) #36

Good points! And I will add, if you decide your trouble could be oxalate related, there is a Facebook group called Trying Low Oxalates. It has thousands of members from all around there world. They also have a carnivore subgroup that you can join after joining the main group. It is very science based.

(Brian) #37

I appreciate learning of Sally Norton. I’m not carnivore but heavily meat based. I do, however, pay attention to some of the major oxalate offenders. Almond flour, which is often huge in the keto community as they replace wheat flour, is huge. Spinach smoothies? Yikes! Swiss chard? Yikes again. And there are a few others that I’ve purposely decided not to continue to consume.

Interestingly, some time not long after going keto while I was still going after all of the sweets replacement stuff, using a lot of almond flour in particular, I had my first and only kidney stone experience. I didn’t really figure out why at the time but I suspect it may have been related. I kinda got over my push for the goodies and rarely use almond flour anymore. Glad I don’t after listening to Sally.

The whole oxalate discussion really does add another level to keto that I didn’t even know about 7 years or so ago when I first decided I couldn’t run well on carbs anymore and expect any kind of health.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

An excellent interview, that covers a lot I hadn’t heard in other interviews with Ms. Norton. Thank you for posting the link.

(Myth Buster ) #39

two things come to my mind

1-

B vitamins. and vitamin D3
If you have cronic inflamation which I have and many people have, you will consume those vitamins rapidly. You can get tired and depresed when depleted from such vitamins.

2-

If your vitamins are normal, I would suspect some level (low) heavy metal toxicity.

(Y Z) #40

MythBuster, Thank you for sharing your insights on this topic.

It’s interesting to learn that deficiencies in these vitamins can contribute to feelings of tiredness and depression, especially for individuals dealing with chronic inflammation like yourself. Could you provide more information about foods or sources rich in these vitamins? It would be helpful to understand how to incorporate them into our diets effectively. And other than diet, how do you and many other people solve this problem ? on or off the carnivore diet ?

And, I’m curious to know more about how people generally address vitamin deficiencies or heavy metal toxicity. Since you mentioned that you and others have experienced this, could you please share some strategies or solutions that have worked for you?

i was thinking that i eat fish more than an avaerage person. Could you elaborate on how this could potentially contribute to heavy metal toxicity and what precautions one could take?