Worried about 2.5 daily calories knocking me out of autophagy - on Day 6 of 10+ fast

(Crystal) #1

TL;DR
Nuun electrolyte tablets have 10 calories from carbs and sugar. I don’t want to order better electrolyte tablets online, because that’ll take a while to arrive, and I’m already 6 days into the fast. I’m thinking maybe I’ll take 1/4 of a tablet a day; will 2.5 calories be enough to sabotage my autophagy?
I’m also worried about green tea, though Dr. Jason Fung says it’s OK - I’m in a water fasting group on facebook and they insist that ANYTHING aside from water is forbidden. That your body will use the electrolytes stored…in your bones…

Hey, first post, first fast. I am a typical American eater. I will inhale an order of pad thai, then go rooting around the refrigerator for more. In one sitting I can eat a big mac, two mcdoubles, a large order of fries, ice cream, you get the idea.
I’m 29, female, 5’6, before this my weight probably fluctuated from 160s-170s

I had been reading about fasting/autophagy, so I just decided to go for it. I wasn’t suuuuuper informed so instead of eating high fat beforehand, the day before my fast I ate what amounted to 1/2 cup (measured uncooked) steel cut oatmeal with a generous chunk of ginger grated/cooked in, and an apple. That’s pretty much it, but I think somehow it eased me into the fast.

Because I’m on Day 6 and it has been astonishingly easy. I’ve been reading about headaches, lethargy, etc, but it’s been pretty painless for me. Feeling totally normal aside from hunger pangs that water banishes, and constantly wanting to watch food porn. Walking feels great and brings me to straight chipper.
I think that could be due to the Nuun tablets, and I’m on Day 2 without them and I think I feel a slight difference already - slight head rushes if I stand up too fast, etc.

Posi:
Before this, my weight probably fluctuated between 160s and 170s, depending on how much I’d been gorging myself on food. Didn’t think to weight myself til day 2, and I was 161.7 pounds. Today, Day 6, I’m 154.9. In less than one pound, I will officially no longer be “overweight” according to my BMI and will be “normal”!!
I intend to continue on to Day 10, and, if I’m still feeling totally fine, Day 14.

(TJ Borden) #2

No. Don’t stress. Keep calm and keto on, and fast when you can.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #3

There is no simple way to check if autophagy is happening or not. We do know that mTOR will block it if it encounters amino acids.

I wouldn’t be taking extra supplements during fasting unless I was having keto flu symptoms, keep up your salt and that should balance you out. If not take some electrolytes and if you still don’t feel right, stop fasting. You can fast again anytime.

Also are you following Dr. Fung’s recommendation to be monitored by a health professional if doing over 7 days of fasting?

(Crystal) #4

I’m not, but I’m really feeling totally normal. I will definitely stop if I start feeling poorly!

(TJ Borden) #5

Maybe that’s how I can finally make a buck on this keto thing. I can buy the ketone pee strips for $10 a pack, slap a new label on them saying “Autophagy Test Strips” then sell them for $30 per pack. Some may say it’s not ethical, but I’d argue it’s just as ethical as peddling exogenous ketones. If it makes people feel better, what’s the harm? :man_shrugging:t2:

#6

:rofl: placebo effect

(LeeAnn Brooks) #7

I say this with love.

If anyone is stressing out about 2.5 calories, they are moving into eating disorder realm. What I mean is when you’re life is being controlled by your food choices or lack there of. Maybe eating disorder is the wrong term, but an unhealthy obsession.

I think most of us need to step back from time to time and realize it’s about the bigger picture and stop obsessing over the minutia.

This is one of those times.

(Doug) #8

No, truly not. :slightly_smiling_face: The body starts/increases autophagy in response to nutrient deprivation, and that tiny amount of calories won’t affect the sensing of nutrient levels to any meaningful degree.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #9

This would be hilarious if it wasn’t so true.

I don’t see the point of exogenous ketones, as you just release them in your pee. I always have a few exiting, so I just never saw the point of them, just so a meter has a higher number. I lost my weight and am keeping if off so exogenous ketones are not required to be successful.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #11

Autophagy begins when you run out of glycogen. This is going to vary widely from person to person and even your body depending on how much glycogen you have stored when you start a fast.

Rule of thumb that folks like Dr. Fung use is around 42 hrs. to peak it, levels off then.

(Doug) #12

Maybe a little. Protein is a potent inhibitor of autophagy, and by the time everything is out of the stomach, the small intestine, and the ‘post-absorptive phase’ is over with, glycogen depleted - then it starts to get going.

Collaroygal, gotta disagree, even if Dr. Fung says that - at the best it’s wishful thinking. A mouse has a vastly higher metabolism than a human, normally eats every hour and a half or so, and autophagy is still increasing after 48 hours of fasting, beyond which the mouse will be dead with one or two more days of fasting.

With insulin, glucagon, mTOR and AMPK - all of which bear on autophagy - getting more favorable to it into the 4th and 5th day of fasting for humans, if not longer, I think a lot of people are underestimating the time it takes to get to the peak in humans.

(Crystal) #13

thanks sincerely for the concern, but honestly i just don’t want to be starving/fasting for no reason if consuming certain electrolytes/supplements are blocking autophagy. once i’m off this fast i plan to pretty much live my life as per usual, though probably more health consciously.

(Crystal) #14

ooo thank you

(Jane) #15

First of all - fasting is not starving. That is just silly.

Do you plan to eat keto after you end your fast?