Wittrock's n=1 Ketogenic 4000 kcal Overfeeding 21 Day Challenge

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #41

All this is why for me personally, olive oil is not worth the trouble. You can pay a lot of money for what seems to be a good brand at the supermarket, and still not be really sure you are getting the real McCoy. It would be different if one was in Italy or some other olive-growing country, and had access to trusted sources, but that’s not the case for me.

So while beef & lamb fat (and their rendered tallows), and butter contain a good proportion of monounsaturated fat (oleic acid), as well as saturated fat, I’m getting at least some of the benefit of olive oil without the risk (of it not being pure olive oil).
(I’m not so trusting of pork fat/lard myself, but that’s another story).

I suppose there are also risks with coconut oil (i.e. if you can’t absolutely guarantee how it’s been processed), but at least, because of coconut oil’s unique properties, I think it’s harder for an unscrupulous producer to mix rogue oils in with it and remain undetected,

However, my wife prefers to cook with olive oil (doesn’t like the taste of coconut oil), and if I cook for her, I use olive oil, or a mixture of olive and coconut. I do use olive oil on salads though. I’m only so so about the taste, but it tends to be masked by the ACV or balsamic vinegar I also use.

(Dave) #42

I’m a macadamia oil and butter man… usually put a bit of both when I cook… Love the combo

(Mike W.) #43

Results video

(Genevieve Biggs) #44

This is awesome. :smiley:

(Shanna) #45

Wow! Can I do a non athlete version? Not sure my husband would appreciate the grocery bill though :confused: lol

(Adam Kirby) #46

Why don’t you give it a try!

#47

I lift, but I’m far from a bodybuilder. This isn’t scientific but just at extreme athletes can take in a lot more carbs and stay in ketosis I’d think somebody like Jason Whitrock that literally gets paid to live in a gym for BB.com can use that and not have it go to sugar on him. I know that’s not the case for me after years of experimenting but that’s a ripped ass dude.

(eat more) #48

did you watch the final video?
he sounded like a straight up hardcore keto activist :clap:t2:

(Bart) #49

Guy was around 30 net carbs a day if I recall correctly. Not very high at all

#50

its literally INFURIATING to me that there is any 'debate" on whether GNG is demand or supply driven. There is NO controversy. It is SUPPLY driven. This is a principle of physiology that has been known for DECADES. your body’s first priority is a minimum blood glucose level. without it you will die within minutes. there is a constant demand for it so framing it as ‘demand driven’ is nonsensical, and its either controlled endogenously (created by the liver) or exogenously (from eating it) or possibly a combination of both.

making glucose form dietary protein is an expensive metabolic endeavor. your body would much rather make it from glycerol during beta oxidation, ESP if you are fat adapted. both of these methods are less metabolically stressful than using your own non recycled lean tissue.

there is no storage mechanism for dietary protein. it doesn’t exist. there is no metabolic pathway for it. (recycled protein is a different story).

excess protein is ALWAYS converted to glucose IF there is no demand for it (ie you are not resistance or endurance training). IF there is a demand for the protein it will not be used for GNG (up to a point. you can’t infinitely build muscle based on how much you lift weights without anabolic agents). there is no other choice for it, and it makes perfect evolutionary sense.

so now what? do you need to watch your protein intake? maybe. if you are gorging on protein constantly you may have some experiences that are similar to, but not as serious as eating too many starchy or simply carbs.

if you are exercising a ton, you can probably get away with 'excess" protein, but that doesn’t mean you can’t still overdo it. in theory it should be difficult because exercise also makes your muscles insulin sensitive and there for a glycogen(glucose) sink (storage area).

if you are not severely metabolically deranged, eating 'excess" protein might not matter at all, in terms of negative health consequences but may or may not drop ketone levels (which may or may not matter to you).

its not that hard, just stay away from protein powders, choose fattier cuts of meat, do some weight training, don’t eat when you’re not hungry and just relax about it.

#51

For clarification, I’m assuming you meant, “excess protein is ALWAYS converted to glucose IF there is no demand for the protein”, so by definition it would be excess and the body would convert any amino acids not being used for rebuild/repair to glucose in order to be burned as fuel or stored as fat since it can’t just store extra amino acids other than the labile amino acid pool referenced below.

I’ll concede everything about GNG being supply driven since at some point anything left is always converted, so the real question is just whether or not eating protein for a particular person will knock them out of ketosis and that range varies from person to person as well as being based on their activity level.

When factoring in ketosis, still have to consider that protein still raises insulin at 1/2 the rate that carbohydrates do, so some people will get kicked out of ketosis just because the protein raised their insulin level even if it didn’t significantly affect their blood glucose through GNG.

(Brian) #52

Does that 1/2 rate apply to all protein eaten OR ONLY protein eaten in excess of the bodies protein requirement?

#53

The 1/2 rate is part of the Insulin Index and considers carbohydrates as total dietary and not excess, so I would think that protein in the same.

In other words, the body is going to have to release insulin based on what it detects coming in from a meal and not just what’s lying around after the meal.

Insulin is so slow to be released that there’s also a trigger from just seeing food called the cephalic release of insulin so the body can get a headstart on getting insulin released in preparation for the food.

#54

It applies to eating protein, even when not in excess. Protein does have a bit of an insulinogenic response. Not as high as carbs, but higher than fats.

#55

Absolutely amazing. I can’t wait for someone to do a similar controlled (as much as possible) scientific study.

(Rebecca) #56

On one of the keto facbook pages I am on a man & women did a 5k calorie challenge for 21 days I think they were eating about 80% fat. The bloke put on some weight but became leaner and the lady lost weight.

(Crow T. Robot) #57

“Calories” are a joke.

(Ross) #58

agreed.

I may go home tonight and fry up a pound of bacon just for the hell of it. :slight_smile: