Without Carbs you will die. Sugar is an essential nutrient. You need 53 essential nutrients

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(Annie) #43

What does he think about all those ultramarathon runners who do keto then? Or these guys who not only rowed across the Atlantic in 29 days without sugar and only on fat, not only getting there earlier than expected by 11 days but beating the world record by 6?

(Carolus Holman) #44

Thanks, I did point that out, just made him madder, and he started talking about ā€œBalanceā€.

(ianrobo) #45

balance ha ha ha

just ask him the one macro nutrient the body does not need and thats science

(Rob) #46

THISā€¦ a million times THiS!

Itā€™s the reaction of diabetics to the idea of reversal and the obese to long term weight loss without self flagellating levels of restriction and exercise.

Doctors and their ilk support this by either saying things are irreversible or are your conscious fault.

I was talking to a much younger friend last night who has PCOS and blames it for significant weight gain. I was explaining how good Keto is for weight and PCOS (I believe from this forum) and she could not come up with enough excuses not to try it. Too much meat, canā€™t lose without exercise, tried it already (Atkins), eat out too much, already eat healthy/low carb (doubt it), etc.
Again, as Iā€™ve said before, martyrdom. To me, It is the creation of a positive spin for a negative action or result. It seems to be a tool of humanity in religious and non religious contexts for millennia and we have raised it to a venerated art. It is the abdication of responsibility for the result while taking responsibility for the action/inaction that got us here.

NB This isnā€™t an anti-religious rant - Martyrdom is used just as much in secular terms in my experience (it is the primary ā€œtwistā€ in most ā€˜goodā€™ Hollywood movies where the hero(ine) lays down their lives for someone else as the ā€˜ultimate sacrificeā€™.

#47

I donā€™t understand this point of view. I mean, I get the idea that it feels horrible to know that I was contributing to my own problems for many years, but I also was lied to about how humans are supposed to eat so it wasnā€™t my fault for what I didnā€™t know. I used to actually think eating candy was fine as long as it was fat-free and all things in moderation was fine. Now I know better, and this knowledge of keto is helping me.

#48

This is a wonderfully mature approach :slight_smile:

(Ken) #49

This is one way I talk to these type of Carb Fanatics. I try to explain to them that because of my genetics, when I eat a Carb based diet, my dietary hormones get out of balance. I explain the insulin-glucagon balance. No, I do not mention ketosis, as thatā€™s not the issue. I explain how too many carbs create insulin resistance, leading not only to fat gain but things like diabetes. I stress that it is important to get these hormones back in balance. The best way being to adopt a lipolytic secretion pattern based on glucagon, by using fat as fuel rather than carbs. I point out that fat loss is one benefit of restoring the hormonal balance, and that once that is reestablished, one can eat carbs as long as the types, amounts, and frequencies do not cause a readaptation into a chronic, insulin secreting pattern. I stress that this varies by individual, but those being overweight and/or diabetic have this imbalance.

This goes over fairly well, and usually generates interest. If so, I then go more into the Science.

(CharleyD) #50

Learned helplessness. It makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Especially from people with working brains.

We obviously have refused to believe it, but it canā€™t be taught. I figure that change has to come from within.

(Kevin) #51

HAHAHAā€¦ Iā€™m on hour 41 of a 48 hour fast so I get the smell thingā€¦ My wife works with a girl who has been talking about her Low Carb diet for weeks and my wife keeps telling me about the foods she is eating and let me say they are NOT low carb in any sense of the term! Just this morning my wife text me that her co-worker was having a big bowl of oatmeal with BROWN SUGAR! :man_facepalming:

#52

Whatā€™s silly is that itā€™s very easy to make a low carb version of just about anything. I make noatmeal sometimes and I like it much better than I used to like oatmeal back in the day.

#53

Iā€™ve been low carbing, very low carbing, keto, etc. for over 30 years, and now trying out zero carbing.

So as you can imagine Iā€™ve been through most of the phases, from blissful ignorance to hardcore to intermittent, burnout and boredom. Iā€™ve learned to pace myself.

Nowadays i only talk about it to people who show genuine interest (or voluntarily turn up on forums) and I have a near allergy to Zealotry, whether it is pro- or anti- food, religion, exercise, tanning, politics or the environment.

Life is too short to froth at the mouth about anything.

(Keto in Katy) #54

Same. Otherwise there is no dialogue to be had, nor is it an interesting use of my time.

(Sophie) #55

Amen, as soon as it starts, my ears automatically shut or my eyes glaze over depending.

#56

It makes my middle finger twitchy and flippy.

(Carol D) #57

If your liver can make sugar, why would you need to eat it? Essential foods are foods our body canā€™t make by definition.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #58

What about the fact that the obesity that a type 2 diabetic has did not cause the diabetes.
The diabetes and the insulin resistance came first, the obesity came second.

Obesity is a symptom of diabetes not the other way around!!

Obesity doesnā€™t cause diabetes, diabetes causes obesity!
It has nothing to do with people being lazy and overeating.
I want to kick your neighborā€™s ass.

(Mark H) #59

Ask him what his brain is mostly made of? Remind him it is: cholesterol!

#60

Someone here who knows more than me can verify this but i thought if you are fat adapted, the liver produces enough glycogen to meet the brainā€™s demands or is it that the brain is running on ketones and does not need sugar? My best workouts at age 67 were at hour 23 of fasting. I was clear headed and had incredible stamina. I was only eating one meal of 15 to 16 oz grass fed beef per day with some butter added depending on my level of activity. This after being diabetic 20 years. Lost 60lbs in 6 months. BG went from 11.0 to 5.0. Lipids excellent. Traveled out of country 3 months ago and had to eat carbs (should have fasted but as soon as carbs were ingested i lost control). Also, did not weight-lift which drives down my BG. Put 25 lbs pounds back on. Did some carb binging when i got back to USA because of the well known viscious BG/insulin cycle. Have 150lbs of grass-fed beef in freezer now. Struggling to get back to nirvana. Pray for me. Feet hurt when i walk now.

#61

Youā€™ve got this. Keep focused on how good it feels to be pain free. Remember nothing tastes as good as feeling good feels. Sometimes during fasting Iā€™ll want to eat and i get by by telling myself i can eat later but now is my time to heal. Or itā€™s related thought Iā€™ve eaten my share of that during my lifetime i donā€™t eat that now. Good luck

(Candy Lind) #62

Youā€™re one of the lucky ones, you know how it works. Keep on eating from your freezer stores and your feet will stop hurting. Stories like yours make me determined to never let my sugar addiction get hold of me again. Thank you!