Wish I'd found y'all sooner

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #6

Let’s see. You’ve been keto for a month and your A1C was high. That suggests that it was really high before you started, as it tests roughly a three month average blood sugar. I dropped mine in a month by about .5, and that was the last time my doctor was interested in checking it.

Your liver. I dunno if they can tell Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disorder from NALFD, but if you pounded a lot of carbs and a lot of booze, why not a bit of both. The good news is that if you just have fatty liver, it’s fixed with low carb/keto and some time. If you have cirrhosis, not sure that gets much better. Any rate, LCHF/Keto is good for reversing fatty liver.

Keep in touch with your doc, and KCKO.

(Alex Dyke) #7

Thanks dude! I’ve been absorbing so much info to tweak my approach so really understand why you feel information overload!

I didn’t have any formal med issues, but I had a blood glucose meter and my trajectory was type 2 diabetes. I didn’t do blood work, with hindsight it was a shame. Same for before pics, I just avoided pics tbh, which reflected my mental state!

I was already borderline prediabetes. I was also physically unfit, which for someone who played sports for years depressed me.

Re: workouts. I mentioned I was unfit, well I struggled to do 30 mins cardio without feeling exhausted. After a few weeks, I was doing 60 mins per day, now I do 90 mins per day cardio. I could do more, but it’s the time rather than lack of energy. My plan has been to get to my lean weight, stabilize and then do more resistance, I plan to add weight with muscle growth not my belly! :wink: lol

What I can tell you is once I was fat adapted, it was a game changer! That took 4-6 weeks from starting, but it is phenomenal. My energy levels are so good, I’ve never felt so good during or after exercise.

I do a combo of OMAD / 2 meals a day to not be in a pattern. I’ve done multiple 72hr fasts, with feasts before and after, all to stimulate my body and avoid it thinking calories are restricted. I’ve found it works for me

I’ve used the ketogains macro calculator, running a 25% deficit, recalibration get macros every 10lbs.

Other tips
get beyond 4-6 weeks, then experiment. Change a variable e.g macros up / down, sweeteners, fasting duration to see the impact.

Doing that helped my forge my own keto approach, I’ve stopped listening to those who make it rules based like you see in some FB groups. I’ve become more aware of what I consume, e.g. hidden sugars

I drink black coffee, black tea, green tea and water during the day. During a fast I also add 1/4 tsp Himalayian salt on my tongue if I feel really hungry, it kills the hunger!

When not fasting I don’t eat if I don’t feel hungry… Or eat because that was the previous pattern. I listen to my body

I cook lots of BBQ, use a food saver / freeze. I always have great tasting food at hand.

Plus I have lots of nuts, cheese, cold cuts, pickles, olives etc to eat. In the fridge

For exercise I have a electrolyte Drink which helps ensure my Electrolytes are balanced

Hope this helps you… all I can say is focus and perseverance for a few weeks will see you break through. Once that happens, it becomes easier

#8

Welcome to the Keto forum. As an 8 year T2DM, I find the keto WOE to be an excellent thing for insulin resistance. In 3 months, I’ve lost almost 35#, reduced my DM & HTN meds & overall feel so much better. You will find a lot of T2’s here and a lot of support. Best of luck!

(Mike) #9

Hey Alex, good stuff. I can’t believe how in tune you are with your body. All mine says right now is “don’t eat”. I guess it’s important to keep mixing things up as you continue on your journey. Well done!

It sounds like at least in your case was that once you became fat adapted things started to “click”.

Did you try these things in the initial 6 weeks or after you became fat adapted? And how does that work with your macros??? And were you even concerned about hitting them, outside of keeping the carbs low? From what it sounds like, our dietary choices are very similar (I might be the only non commercial dude in NYC smoking 'cue!) but I worry about not hitting my fat macros.

I have also attempted to go with 25% caloric deficit and it seems like these calculators up the percentage of protein. Initially I think was eating too much nuts and cheese and didn’t feel like I could get an accurate reading of how much fat
I was getting from say a ribeye steak.

So now most of my fat us coming from oil (mct, olive and coconut) and have greatly reduced the amount of cheese and got rid of nuts as those foods could really trigger me and would eat the hell out of them! I also have always been sort of an intermittent faster because I’ve never liked eating breakfast. My entire life basically.

Would u recommend I "play it straight’ until I become fat adapted (3 squares hit macros exactly no caloric deficit)? What about these goody keto foods-- like the pancakes and fat bombs etc? Did u do any of those type of things?

Or do you think I just need to perservere and it will come in time? Based on your own experience. I realize yours is but one opinion and we know what they say about those but so far this is as close a meaningful and similar experience so your help greatly appreciated.

(Mike) #10

Hi Lecheffe,

Thanks for response. I guess my whole problem with the A1c is that it assumes that all red blood cells last for 3 months therefore the sugar in those cells must’ve been there for at least 3 months! I work with advanced mathematics so u can understand how I could see the myriad of ways this could be distorted, especially since nothing in my diet has changed from the prior 11 months and 1 month drastic change (no fat to high fat) and a huge spike shows up? I’m skeptical. I’ve seen stuff online that claims glucose can become elevated because of the initial transformation your body goes thru so I want to see if anyone here had anything similar occur.

As to my liver…what a champ! You are correct they cannot tell the difference between alcoholic and non without doing a biopsy but my sonogram came back just over the border. Definitely no cirrosis. But the elevated enzymes (which led to the test/diagnosis) we’re my initial concern. Never really ate carbs and alcohol use moderate. I suppose it could be the build up of alcohol use over time but again nothing really in NY diet has changed. And to be honest I was pretty shocked with my blood test results just a year after getting an exemplary bill of health and knowing my diet Iver that time period.

So was just looking to see if there are others who might be in the same boat. Misery lives company lol.

Thanks again

(Bob M) #11

While A1c does change per person (your red blood cells might last longer than someone else’s, which means your A1c would be higher than theirs), it’s a pretty good marker. If your A1c is 10, something is wrong. Mine was 5.4 after about 6 months on low carb (didn’t get it tested beforehand, as I didn’t know what it was and my former primary care physician refused to get it for me, so I bought the test myself). Mine keeps dropping, and now it’s 5.0, and that may be as low as it gets. We’ll have to see.

As for fatty liver, keto is good, but intermittent fasting is better. Start doing a few 36+ hour fasts per week.

(Mike) #12

Hi Bob,

Thanks for reply. Doctors. Pfft. What do they know??? But seriously, my a1c came back 5.7, with 5.6 being the official marker for pre-diabetes.

Unlike most newbs to keto, I actually was never a heavy carb/sugar guy. I always ate high protein, low fat. So my belief is that I’ve been in gluconeogenesis state for some time. The switch to fat in my diet actually helped LOWER my insulin levels, causing blood sugar to be higher.

My doctor didn’t order an insulin test with my blood work, but said oh your insulin levels would also have to be elevated. Not true. There are some studies (albeit not very thorough or conclusive) that suggest that ketogenic diet ING could cause elevated blood sugar levels because of gluconeogenesis as the body adapts.

Not sure how to link the article I just read but “food for thought” I guess.

(Running from stupidity) #13

Just copy the URL and paste it into your post.

(Mike) #14

Thanks juice! Duh. I’m guessing it’s ok to post links then? Here:

And maybe I’ll ask the all-steak all the time diet guy if he’d share his a1c levels lol

(Candy Lind) #15

You’re definitely insulin resistant. For that reason, until you’re certain you’re fully fat-adapted, you should not eat for weight loss. Read THIS POST where I draw an analogy to help understand IR.

Keto (specifically very low carb) will heal your fatty liver. A friend was placed on keto by an endocrinologist when her NAFLD was discovered during an emergency appendectomy. She has healed her liver and lost over 100 pounds in the process, and is still KCKO.

Keep the faith! KCKO

(Mike) #16

Thanks, Candy for the encouragement. I guess I was having difficulty distinguishing between being in ketosis and fat adapted. Couldn’t understand why ketone levels were good but weight not going anywhere.

I feel so much better after joining this community and hearing and reading real life stories and not just over reacting to the med tests.

(Candy Lind) #17

Just keep the carbs low, moderate protein, eat fat to satiety at first, KCKO; and later you can freak out & ask a million questions about macros and such. :smiling_imp:

OH, one thing you can read up on is cholesterol, because it’s usually an issue with our doctors (because they are woefully uneducated about current science on cholesterol, CVD, and CHD). Try to find a fairly new thread called “the numbers are in!” or something like that, then read the “show me the science” section. You can be ready to talk knowledgeably when you see your doc in 6 months or so.

(Bob M) #18

The all steak guy is a world class athlete. He is doing stuff I can’t believe a person his age could do. Whatever his blood values are, they probably don’t apply to me or you or 99.9% of the population.

(Alex Dyke) #19

It’s taken time to listen and understand my body… plus I was also starting from a weak point. For years I was either able to consume what I wanted and able to carry a few extra pounds, I was always affectionately known as the “Big Man” through sports from before Uni. However since my 40s it was less and less based on physical prowess!

I definitely think the click occurs post fat adaptation… everything becomes easier. It’s often after the weight loss plateau that sees many turn away from keto as it doesn’t seem to work etc

Re first 6 weeks: My first 4-6 weeks were about being very disciplined, in fact I got stricter on tracking my macros. As I’m a data guy, I was taking various measurements (weight, blood glucose, BF, waist etc) on a daily basis. Many discourage this… but I wanted to track my progress to a fine degree. I was intrigued to see the progress etc

Re macros: as I mentioned I became more focused on understanding my food related to my macros rather than values. I adopted the view that the ketogains values were targets, keeping carbs sub 20g, aiming for protein partly due to my cardio efforts and for my love of BBQ. Hitting my fat wasn’t a strict target, if I was under but full, I didn’t worry. That was a key thing, to eat when hungry rather than driven by the targets, so if I under consumed, it wasn’t an issue. I trusted my body to tell me to eat etc

Now I’m experimenting with feasting / fasting. So loading up on fats or proteins, then assessing the impact. I try to do 72hr fast every 10 days or so. Also seeing the impact of increasing carbs to 30 or 45g

I try to have diet variety as it’s about taste, texture for me, I definitely eat less than I did, as I don’t over prepare or order. It was weird struggling with my previous portions after a few weeks! Plus I think I was fortunate to not be a carb addict, my household still has the same goods there as I’m the only Keto’er, but I can even prepare foods that I cannot consume (and that’s got easier over time). One suggestion if you have a trigger food like nuts is to weigh a portion and close the container, don’t make the mistake of having the bag of nuts and just dipping in. I love salted macadamias, and could eat those 100g bags, but I’d weigh 30g in a dish and enjoy every salty bite. Knowing that once the 30g is gone, then that’s it, so I instinctively rationed them

Re: play it straight. It’s such a personal journey, but I guess I was motivated to do this and I saw daily progress, that reinforced my focus. I’ve absorbed as much info as I could to understand how my body works with the food inputs. This combination kept me motivated and I did see weight plateaus, which encouraged me to try extended fasts, which as I was never a big breakfast fan and already eating one meal a day, it wasn’t a big leap. Many of my friends couldn’t envisage not eating… I simple said, have you tried? If you tell yourself you cannot do it… then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy imho!

Re: keto treats. I went cold turkey and tried to minimize those as I planned to reintroduce them. Now I was a major dark chocolate fan, so that was tough, but it was only going to be few weeks. So I just told myself the sacrifice was worth it… now I do mug cakes, dark Choc mousse or bars as a treat. Not a daily treat, but probably 2-3 times per week max

My recently recommendation to you is to stick with it because I feel better than ever… my original 94kg / 207lb target by early Nov is close (around 3kg / 6lb). So I’m thinking of going to 90kg / sub 200lb as I believe what I’m doing is right and that might take my BF to mid teens. If I was told that in June 2018, I wouldn’t believe it!

But my journey hasn’t been a constant decline, it’s been bumpy, so don’t be too hard on yourself if it appears to not be working, not all progress in measured in lbs for example my waist has dropped from 44" to 36", I’m having to add notches to my belts!

One final thing is that you might stumble, there might be a work or family event where you go back to the old ways. All you do is pick it back up, I know when I’ve overconsumed carbs, I can feel the difference, so that encourages me to be stronger when tempted!

Hopefully this helps you progress… one final thought it’s the journey not the destination that will change your life.

(Mike) #20

Thanks again, Alex. I’m definitely going to stick it out and am hoping my trip to Disney this weekend doesn’t derail me too bad. Maybe a good time for a 72- hour fast lol.

Like yourself, I am data driven, though it also sounds like I am less disciplined and patient. I’m usually someone who needs to see results or at least positive progress to re assure that I’m on the right path.

I also enjoy learning about the science behind this. I know this can work but I am less confident in my ability to to find the right combination to maximize progress. Hence why I track as well.

I’m still iffy on the protein and fat as I too love BBQ (just smoked me some baby backs last night, neighbors be damned) and need to find a way to incorporate more fat into my diet.

I am now down 8lbs in 5 weeks so maybe it is just starting to click…who knows but I’m at least ready to enjoy the ride!

PS you have a good keto BBQ sauce recipe? The one I did last night was OK a little too tangy!

(Alex Dyke) #21

VVNo worries dude… here to help / share my experiences and keep firing the questions! :wink:

72 hour fast @ Disney - that will be a challenge, but you can opt for less carb options, even if you get them and don’t consume the burger or hot dog bun! Chicken wings without breadcrumbs are always a good call, you can add extra “keto points” for more butter and Franks Hot Sauce. Another trick is to load up on keto friendly foods before eating with the family, you’ll be tempted less

I’ve found eating out gets easier as you can have a large steak, add butter and eat. If you make clear to your server that you don’t want carbs, sometimes they think it might be a bad allergy and become concerned etc. now I never say I have an allergy, just insisted re no breads etc. if asked I just say it’s my diet choice. More informed restaurants now ask if you’re keto / paleo etc. what I don’t do is mispresent any allergies, they can draw their own conclusions!

Re data - the reason this woe works for me is the results I’ve seen. Like you I’m impatient and previous “healthy” eating was a slow grind. Once your rolling with this, it gathers momentum, you see results, reinforcing the approach, you keep motivated, so a reoccurring cycle.

I’m now tweaking my macro inputs to see my impacts to fine tune my keto approach as I think everyone is different and there isn’t one way to do keto. That’s based on how metabolic deranged I am, genetics, food choices etc. I’m of course using the basis of 20g carbs etc, but as I’ve mentioned I’ve upped those and still seen positive progress and I’m clearly still in Ketosis

So I just think you’re where I was a few weeks ago… your comments had great parallels to how I felt. So don’t be too hard on yourself, as a techie I know that troubleshooting an issue takes a logical approach, so I apply the same logic. Break a situation down into inputs / outputs / process / controls etc, change one variable and determine impact. I don’t see this any different than a challenge in work

Re ability / tracking - honestly it seems like you’re being too hard on yourself. There’s limited downsides to making an error imho, as you’re tracking the impact, so you stop / reverse and try something else. Try not to be too impatient, it probably took many years to get where you are, so don’t expect to unwind in days. You need to allow your body to catch up with this in my experience, I get ideas from many sources, but simplistically it’s about learning what works for you e.g I never really enjoyed breakfast, so skipping it was simple and not a hardship. Others might struggle with that, whilst I enjoy eating a late lunch or evening meal, but not too close to sleeping. My pattern won’t be for everyone, so again resist the comparison temptation if you can

BBQ so I cook all year round and have a passion for that. There’s no meal that can’t be improved with a BBQ approach. I have charcoal, pellet and gas. I use based on time and convenience. For many tears Xmas turkey and hams have been cooked on my BBQ. Not sure what you run but a rotisserie is a superb option for chicken or tri tips… simple seasoning (salt, pepper, smoked paprika, onion powder, garlic powder) either dry or in olive oil works well. Tweaking the amounts based on impact, but sometimes you just need smoke (hickory / cherry is a fav), maybe add salt / pepper!

BBQ mops are ACV based these days, with salt and pepper

Sauce… I’d aim for NC vinegar based ones. You can make your own, I prefer it thin to thick, as I want the BBQ to not be drowned in it. If you’re buying sauce, I’d go for Arthur Bryant’s if you can get it. The carbs are relatively low, I’ve even thinned it out with more acv, but that does change the taste profile!

The other thing I’ve noticed is the longer I avoid sugar based sauces, the more I don’t enjoy them if I do encounter them. Clearly our taste buds adapt based on inputs, which I knew, but it’s odd when you experience it!

(Keto Victory) #22

Just a couple thoughts…

  1. Since you appreciate how useful data can be, have you considered getting a Freestyle Libre so you can monitor your BG 24/7?

I was a rabid finger-tester, but that only produced a small number of dots per day. Now that I’m getting continuous, curvy lines, I can see exactly where my trouble spots are (peaks and sustained higher-than–average BG).

  1. Even frequent, regular BG finger tests give you better info than an A1c test (which of course is way better than an annual fasting BG test). There are many confounding factors, and a single would-be “average” is just not that enlightening for people on your wave-length.

  2. IMHO, it is really hard to control even the variables you’re aware of, but it’s the best we can do. So it makes sense to ID as many variables as possible. (Things like sleep, hydration, cortisol, etc., can affect BG level and/or measurement…)

Good luck!

(Mike) #23

Yeah I was just kidding about the fast at Disney, going to be logging too many miles do t want to crash and burn! I think I’ve got it figured out and should be OK. Smoked turkey leg, anyone?

Incidentally I do my holiday meals on the grill too… Thanksgiving turkey for the last 8 years. Super convenient, frees up the oven for other stuff, and clean up a snap! Smoke/roast with hickory and apple wood. Yum!

I’ve very good about tracking, but I don’t think I’m at the tweak stage just yet. Because frankly I don’t know if/when anything is working yet. Hoping for the fat adaption switch to go off like a kid waiting for Xmas.

So for now I’m not going to do anything. I’m doing 25% calories restriction, am hitting my macros 70-75 fat, 20 protein, 5 carbs but find it hard to eat even to the reduced calories. I think it’s just taking me longer because I’m not coming from a carb heavy diet but rather a protein heavy one.

As far as the glucose monitor goes, I may do that once I get I to fat adaption. I have to go back to the doctor in another 45 days so hopefully that number is lower…I don’t want to be obsessive about that one as blood sugar can be all over the place and influenced by exercise.

Will report back the keto options from Orlando… Thanks all!

(Keto Kid 4 Life) #24

Welcome!

(Candy Lind) #25

There are lots of good SF BBQ sauce (and rub) recipes on line. Another good readily available sauce is G Hughes brand (it’s sugar-free, most WalMarts & larger chains sell it). Original and Hickory versions are quite good - even my non-keto BFF & Godchildren like it.