Wish I'd found y'all sooner

(Mike) #1

So I’m a typical newb to keto, but not to low carb eating. When I was younger some 25 years ago
I would use a high protein diet to lose all of the weight I’d gained during g the college school year over the summer. Rinse and repeat.

As I got older, I’ve always favored a protein heavy diet and eschewed carbs generally. I wasn’t on a program or lifestyle didn’t count carbs and generally would yo-yo with my weight. After the birth of my son, my weight crept higher and for the past 5 years I’ve been in the 220-240 range. I’m 45 yo male , 5’10". Definitely over weight, but muscular from previous exercise. Generally very healthy, and passed the life insurance health exam last year with all of my blood levels and readings in excellent shape.

Got up to 250lbs over the summer and decided to try keto and really follow a plan. Tracking macros, keto meter, the whole nine yards. Started just over a month ago. Decided not to use the scale. Felt OK, nothing biblical like some devotees. About 3 weeks in, definitely didn’t feel great, like there was a tightness. Total loss of appetite, always felt really full. Started to do some intermittent fasting, didn’t feel any differently. Ketone readings were OK, and have persistent metal mouth so knew I was in ketosis so didn’t worry about the scale. I was confident that I always lose weight (especially the water weight) pretty quickly and easily.

Hopped on the scale after a month and lost 2lbs. Discouraged, I realized that it’s not a magic bullet, and decided to go to the doctor to get checked out. Results come back: crazy high ALT (liver enzyme) levels and elevated glucose (104) pre-diabetes. Freaked out, I explain to doctor that I just started keto and she says no way, the the 3 month average glucose levels test means I’ve been pre diabetic for a while. And I should get a liver sonogram. Get the sonogram…comes back just barely fatty liver disease.

Doctor, wife both make we swear off alcohol for life. I don’t typically abuse alcohol, but do indulge from time to time.

Sorry for the long rant and I may finally spit out a question here…

What gives? Should I stick with keto? Am I insulin resistant? How do I fix this? Have been eating clean keto, macros have been good, have tried to keep a caloric deficit, carbs always under 17g.

Please help me…I’d like to be able to enjoy a beer (low carb if course😂) again.

#2

Welcome!

(Sophie) #3

You landed in a soft spot. Welcome aboard, lots of great stuff here.

(Alex Dyke) #4

Welcome!

Your experiences are very similar to mine. I’m mid 40s, my weight reached 280lbs in June 2018. I realised that I needed to change and did low carb / high protein as it had worked for me / participated in lots of sports etc

Mid July I switched to a keto approach and just pushed on… it really works. It does need perseverance, I’m just over 120 days. I’m now around 212lbs, and around 5lbs from my target weight. No previous eating approach has yielded these results, but more importantly I feel tremendous, with energy and fitness levels that roll back almost 30 years

So stick with it… it’s worthwhile! In my opinion it’s a personal journey, so your pattern is unlikely to mirror others, but stick to the principles and results come!

My plan is to switch to a more lenient approach and see how my body reacts. So I might consume more carbs and see the impact etc… if you do the same it could be a beer or two? :wink:

(Mike) #5

Wow Alex, insane transformation. Congrats! And thanks for replying. I think I was just feeling a combination of frustration and info overload and my head is just spinning.

Did you have any med test issues as well? Should I just ignore that as noise and revisit after I start to see some tangible results?

Any other tips you can give? Did u workout? Weights, cardio, or both? I have felt terrible after lifting so have tried to just stick with cardio. But I feel like my body is fighting me this time??? Does that make any sense???

Also, did/ do you maintain a caloric deficit or do any intermittent fasting? My worry is that I’m not eating enough because I really just feel full all of the time. And that somehow my body is conflicted by lower calories than it’s used to.

Thanks again

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #6

Let’s see. You’ve been keto for a month and your A1C was high. That suggests that it was really high before you started, as it tests roughly a three month average blood sugar. I dropped mine in a month by about .5, and that was the last time my doctor was interested in checking it.

Your liver. I dunno if they can tell Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disorder from NALFD, but if you pounded a lot of carbs and a lot of booze, why not a bit of both. The good news is that if you just have fatty liver, it’s fixed with low carb/keto and some time. If you have cirrhosis, not sure that gets much better. Any rate, LCHF/Keto is good for reversing fatty liver.

Keep in touch with your doc, and KCKO.

(Alex Dyke) #7

Thanks dude! I’ve been absorbing so much info to tweak my approach so really understand why you feel information overload!

I didn’t have any formal med issues, but I had a blood glucose meter and my trajectory was type 2 diabetes. I didn’t do blood work, with hindsight it was a shame. Same for before pics, I just avoided pics tbh, which reflected my mental state!

I was already borderline prediabetes. I was also physically unfit, which for someone who played sports for years depressed me.

Re: workouts. I mentioned I was unfit, well I struggled to do 30 mins cardio without feeling exhausted. After a few weeks, I was doing 60 mins per day, now I do 90 mins per day cardio. I could do more, but it’s the time rather than lack of energy. My plan has been to get to my lean weight, stabilize and then do more resistance, I plan to add weight with muscle growth not my belly! :wink: lol

What I can tell you is once I was fat adapted, it was a game changer! That took 4-6 weeks from starting, but it is phenomenal. My energy levels are so good, I’ve never felt so good during or after exercise.

I do a combo of OMAD / 2 meals a day to not be in a pattern. I’ve done multiple 72hr fasts, with feasts before and after, all to stimulate my body and avoid it thinking calories are restricted. I’ve found it works for me

I’ve used the ketogains macro calculator, running a 25% deficit, recalibration get macros every 10lbs.

Other tips
get beyond 4-6 weeks, then experiment. Change a variable e.g macros up / down, sweeteners, fasting duration to see the impact.

Doing that helped my forge my own keto approach, I’ve stopped listening to those who make it rules based like you see in some FB groups. I’ve become more aware of what I consume, e.g. hidden sugars

I drink black coffee, black tea, green tea and water during the day. During a fast I also add 1/4 tsp Himalayian salt on my tongue if I feel really hungry, it kills the hunger!

When not fasting I don’t eat if I don’t feel hungry… Or eat because that was the previous pattern. I listen to my body

I cook lots of BBQ, use a food saver / freeze. I always have great tasting food at hand.

Plus I have lots of nuts, cheese, cold cuts, pickles, olives etc to eat. In the fridge

For exercise I have a electrolyte Drink which helps ensure my Electrolytes are balanced

Hope this helps you… all I can say is focus and perseverance for a few weeks will see you break through. Once that happens, it becomes easier

#8

Welcome to the Keto forum. As an 8 year T2DM, I find the keto WOE to be an excellent thing for insulin resistance. In 3 months, I’ve lost almost 35#, reduced my DM & HTN meds & overall feel so much better. You will find a lot of T2’s here and a lot of support. Best of luck!

(Mike) #9

Hey Alex, good stuff. I can’t believe how in tune you are with your body. All mine says right now is “don’t eat”. I guess it’s important to keep mixing things up as you continue on your journey. Well done!

It sounds like at least in your case was that once you became fat adapted things started to “click”.

Did you try these things in the initial 6 weeks or after you became fat adapted? And how does that work with your macros??? And were you even concerned about hitting them, outside of keeping the carbs low? From what it sounds like, our dietary choices are very similar (I might be the only non commercial dude in NYC smoking 'cue!) but I worry about not hitting my fat macros.

I have also attempted to go with 25% caloric deficit and it seems like these calculators up the percentage of protein. Initially I think was eating too much nuts and cheese and didn’t feel like I could get an accurate reading of how much fat
I was getting from say a ribeye steak.

So now most of my fat us coming from oil (mct, olive and coconut) and have greatly reduced the amount of cheese and got rid of nuts as those foods could really trigger me and would eat the hell out of them! I also have always been sort of an intermittent faster because I’ve never liked eating breakfast. My entire life basically.

Would u recommend I "play it straight’ until I become fat adapted (3 squares hit macros exactly no caloric deficit)? What about these goody keto foods-- like the pancakes and fat bombs etc? Did u do any of those type of things?

Or do you think I just need to perservere and it will come in time? Based on your own experience. I realize yours is but one opinion and we know what they say about those but so far this is as close a meaningful and similar experience so your help greatly appreciated.

(Mike) #10

Hi Lecheffe,

Thanks for response. I guess my whole problem with the A1c is that it assumes that all red blood cells last for 3 months therefore the sugar in those cells must’ve been there for at least 3 months! I work with advanced mathematics so u can understand how I could see the myriad of ways this could be distorted, especially since nothing in my diet has changed from the prior 11 months and 1 month drastic change (no fat to high fat) and a huge spike shows up? I’m skeptical. I’ve seen stuff online that claims glucose can become elevated because of the initial transformation your body goes thru so I want to see if anyone here had anything similar occur.

As to my liver…what a champ! You are correct they cannot tell the difference between alcoholic and non without doing a biopsy but my sonogram came back just over the border. Definitely no cirrosis. But the elevated enzymes (which led to the test/diagnosis) we’re my initial concern. Never really ate carbs and alcohol use moderate. I suppose it could be the build up of alcohol use over time but again nothing really in NY diet has changed. And to be honest I was pretty shocked with my blood test results just a year after getting an exemplary bill of health and knowing my diet Iver that time period.

So was just looking to see if there are others who might be in the same boat. Misery lives company lol.

Thanks again

(Bob M) #11

While A1c does change per person (your red blood cells might last longer than someone else’s, which means your A1c would be higher than theirs), it’s a pretty good marker. If your A1c is 10, something is wrong. Mine was 5.4 after about 6 months on low carb (didn’t get it tested beforehand, as I didn’t know what it was and my former primary care physician refused to get it for me, so I bought the test myself). Mine keeps dropping, and now it’s 5.0, and that may be as low as it gets. We’ll have to see.

As for fatty liver, keto is good, but intermittent fasting is better. Start doing a few 36+ hour fasts per week.

(Mike) #12

Hi Bob,

Thanks for reply. Doctors. Pfft. What do they know??? But seriously, my a1c came back 5.7, with 5.6 being the official marker for pre-diabetes.

Unlike most newbs to keto, I actually was never a heavy carb/sugar guy. I always ate high protein, low fat. So my belief is that I’ve been in gluconeogenesis state for some time. The switch to fat in my diet actually helped LOWER my insulin levels, causing blood sugar to be higher.

My doctor didn’t order an insulin test with my blood work, but said oh your insulin levels would also have to be elevated. Not true. There are some studies (albeit not very thorough or conclusive) that suggest that ketogenic diet ING could cause elevated blood sugar levels because of gluconeogenesis as the body adapts.

Not sure how to link the article I just read but “food for thought” I guess.

(Running from stupidity) #13

Just copy the URL and paste it into your post.

(Mike) #14

Thanks juice! Duh. I’m guessing it’s ok to post links then? Here:

And maybe I’ll ask the all-steak all the time diet guy if he’d share his a1c levels lol

(Candy Lind) #15

You’re definitely insulin resistant. For that reason, until you’re certain you’re fully fat-adapted, you should not eat for weight loss. Read THIS POST where I draw an analogy to help understand IR.

Keto (specifically very low carb) will heal your fatty liver. A friend was placed on keto by an endocrinologist when her NAFLD was discovered during an emergency appendectomy. She has healed her liver and lost over 100 pounds in the process, and is still KCKO.

Keep the faith! KCKO

(Mike) #16

Thanks, Candy for the encouragement. I guess I was having difficulty distinguishing between being in ketosis and fat adapted. Couldn’t understand why ketone levels were good but weight not going anywhere.

I feel so much better after joining this community and hearing and reading real life stories and not just over reacting to the med tests.

(Candy Lind) #17

Just keep the carbs low, moderate protein, eat fat to satiety at first, KCKO; and later you can freak out & ask a million questions about macros and such. :smiling_imp:

OH, one thing you can read up on is cholesterol, because it’s usually an issue with our doctors (because they are woefully uneducated about current science on cholesterol, CVD, and CHD). Try to find a fairly new thread called “the numbers are in!” or something like that, then read the “show me the science” section. You can be ready to talk knowledgeably when you see your doc in 6 months or so.

(Bob M) #18

The all steak guy is a world class athlete. He is doing stuff I can’t believe a person his age could do. Whatever his blood values are, they probably don’t apply to me or you or 99.9% of the population.

(Alex Dyke) #19

It’s taken time to listen and understand my body… plus I was also starting from a weak point. For years I was either able to consume what I wanted and able to carry a few extra pounds, I was always affectionately known as the “Big Man” through sports from before Uni. However since my 40s it was less and less based on physical prowess!

I definitely think the click occurs post fat adaptation… everything becomes easier. It’s often after the weight loss plateau that sees many turn away from keto as it doesn’t seem to work etc

Re first 6 weeks: My first 4-6 weeks were about being very disciplined, in fact I got stricter on tracking my macros. As I’m a data guy, I was taking various measurements (weight, blood glucose, BF, waist etc) on a daily basis. Many discourage this… but I wanted to track my progress to a fine degree. I was intrigued to see the progress etc

Re macros: as I mentioned I became more focused on understanding my food related to my macros rather than values. I adopted the view that the ketogains values were targets, keeping carbs sub 20g, aiming for protein partly due to my cardio efforts and for my love of BBQ. Hitting my fat wasn’t a strict target, if I was under but full, I didn’t worry. That was a key thing, to eat when hungry rather than driven by the targets, so if I under consumed, it wasn’t an issue. I trusted my body to tell me to eat etc

Now I’m experimenting with feasting / fasting. So loading up on fats or proteins, then assessing the impact. I try to do 72hr fast every 10 days or so. Also seeing the impact of increasing carbs to 30 or 45g

I try to have diet variety as it’s about taste, texture for me, I definitely eat less than I did, as I don’t over prepare or order. It was weird struggling with my previous portions after a few weeks! Plus I think I was fortunate to not be a carb addict, my household still has the same goods there as I’m the only Keto’er, but I can even prepare foods that I cannot consume (and that’s got easier over time). One suggestion if you have a trigger food like nuts is to weigh a portion and close the container, don’t make the mistake of having the bag of nuts and just dipping in. I love salted macadamias, and could eat those 100g bags, but I’d weigh 30g in a dish and enjoy every salty bite. Knowing that once the 30g is gone, then that’s it, so I instinctively rationed them

Re: play it straight. It’s such a personal journey, but I guess I was motivated to do this and I saw daily progress, that reinforced my focus. I’ve absorbed as much info as I could to understand how my body works with the food inputs. This combination kept me motivated and I did see weight plateaus, which encouraged me to try extended fasts, which as I was never a big breakfast fan and already eating one meal a day, it wasn’t a big leap. Many of my friends couldn’t envisage not eating… I simple said, have you tried? If you tell yourself you cannot do it… then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy imho!

Re: keto treats. I went cold turkey and tried to minimize those as I planned to reintroduce them. Now I was a major dark chocolate fan, so that was tough, but it was only going to be few weeks. So I just told myself the sacrifice was worth it… now I do mug cakes, dark Choc mousse or bars as a treat. Not a daily treat, but probably 2-3 times per week max

My recently recommendation to you is to stick with it because I feel better than ever… my original 94kg / 207lb target by early Nov is close (around 3kg / 6lb). So I’m thinking of going to 90kg / sub 200lb as I believe what I’m doing is right and that might take my BF to mid teens. If I was told that in June 2018, I wouldn’t believe it!

But my journey hasn’t been a constant decline, it’s been bumpy, so don’t be too hard on yourself if it appears to not be working, not all progress in measured in lbs for example my waist has dropped from 44" to 36", I’m having to add notches to my belts!

One final thing is that you might stumble, there might be a work or family event where you go back to the old ways. All you do is pick it back up, I know when I’ve overconsumed carbs, I can feel the difference, so that encourages me to be stronger when tempted!

Hopefully this helps you progress… one final thought it’s the journey not the destination that will change your life.

(Mike) #20

Thanks again, Alex. I’m definitely going to stick it out and am hoping my trip to Disney this weekend doesn’t derail me too bad. Maybe a good time for a 72- hour fast lol.

Like yourself, I am data driven, though it also sounds like I am less disciplined and patient. I’m usually someone who needs to see results or at least positive progress to re assure that I’m on the right path.

I also enjoy learning about the science behind this. I know this can work but I am less confident in my ability to to find the right combination to maximize progress. Hence why I track as well.

I’m still iffy on the protein and fat as I too love BBQ (just smoked me some baby backs last night, neighbors be damned) and need to find a way to incorporate more fat into my diet.

I am now down 8lbs in 5 weeks so maybe it is just starting to click…who knows but I’m at least ready to enjoy the ride!

PS you have a good keto BBQ sauce recipe? The one I did last night was OK a little too tangy!