Why not reducing fat to lose weight in a keto diet?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #41

I will change towards a diet with whole foods, for sure. But for now, I want to be “controlled” by my doctor. She told me she would recommend me to switch to whole food at some point in time.

(Jane) #42

I’ve done low carb, low fat many times in my life - it was Atkins and I had a fear of fat from my programming so I also went low fat. In fact before I found keto I started out low carb (< 20) and low fat in November 2017.

Did I lose weight? Yes. Have I always lost weight going LC, LF? Yes.

The difference is I could not sustain it. I got SICK of the food. That is my n=1 and you may do great on it.

On keto my meals are delicious with the added fat, I never get tired of eating keto and I have maintained my weight for over a year - something I never could do on LC, LF. You have the added motivation of paying for a doctor so that will keep you on track (like I did paying for Weight Watchers) :wink:

For another n=1… when I started adding butter to my morning coffee and upped my fats my skin and har improved remarkedly. And I felt better (absorbed more vitamins from nutrition? Just a guess). I did this while still losing and it did not affect my weight loss, even though I was terrified it would.

I did experience a stall several months after I added fats but I also stalled on Atkins in the past and because I was tired of the food it was easy to give up after a prolonged stall. Fasting broke my stall.

Please keep us posted on your progress! It is interesting to me how all the different variations of low carb work for different people.

(mole person) #43

Yes. What @Janie said is perfect. It’s not that calorie restricted/low carb/low fat won’t work or isn’t keto, but rather that it’s not sustainable in the long run for anybody. It seems, however, that @Arbre understands that he’ll have to increase his fats as he approaches his ideal body weight.

I’m also interested in how his diet progresses. Keep posting your results!

(bulkbiker) #44

It sounds as if you are running a variant of the “Newcastle Diet”
ultra low calorie meal replacement with some green veg. You will be in starvation ketosis because you are eating very little.
My question would be what does your doctor intend to your transition on to when you come to the end of the 8-12 week period that this regime is intended to be?

(Jennibc) #45

Blockquote AFAIK, fat does not lead to less hunger. The key is low carbs, not high fats.

This is not my experience at all. When I eat higher fat, it takes care of my hunger. Protein does not put a dent in my hunger even though supposedly should.

(Jill F.) #46

How much weight have you lost so far @Arbre? It will be interesting to see how you lose while on controlled diet from dr versus how much you cam lose eating whole foods.
Here is my take on this whole thing. I have done Weight Watchers, fad diets, counted calories , everything over the years to lose weight. I was a size 14 for most of my adult life, needing to lose 40 to 50 pounds constantly. I could always lose 20 and then I would go right back to my old habits and gain it all back.
I am 45 year old woman, post menopausal with arthritis. I am a psychotherapist and have a high stress job. I also have a severely autistic teenager so the cards were stacked against me to lose weight due to stress, lack of time to exercise, etc. I have successfully lost 42 pounds since December 2018 eating high fat, lots of steak, butter, and green veggies. It has worked for me, kept me satisfied, and I do not overeat. I have finally learned to listen to my body and give it more when it asks for it. I have learned to eat smart and healthier and I no longer stress eat.
I know, for myself anyway, had I gone a route of a controlled diet from a dr, a box, a supplement, or a program I would lose yes, but as SOON as I was on my own I would regain it.
To each their own, but I personally think this long term is a recipe for failure in your weight loss journey. Do we need to eat 150g a day in fat longterm? No. Do I still eat that much now that I have reached my goal weight? No I dont. However Ineat enough to stay satisfied and avoid those cravings that lead to my relapses.
Please dont take that as an attack or personal, it is just my take on the science and process behind keto. All I know is this has worked well for me and I will never go back to how I ate before.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #47

@Ilana_Rose and @Janie: thank for your wishes!

I think I am understanding a bit better the role of fat: at the beginning, when one has lots of stored fats, with a low carb, low fat diet, we enter into ketosis, leading to higher brain sensitivity to leptin. Since we have lots of stored fats, this leads to lots of leptin. So the brain is satisfied, even though we are eating little (we use a lot of the stored fat).

But then, when we start getting slim, we have less stored fat, so less leptin, so the brain starts complaining and this leads to hunger. I hypothesize that increasing the amount of eaten fat is the “right” approach then: with the new fat, the brain does not “complain” so much, and we have less hunger.

So then, I can answer my initial question (please correct me if you disagree): at the beginning of the keto diet, it is safe to eat a low fat diet. But as soon as we are getting slimmer, the amount of fat in the diet has to increase.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #48

Exactly, it seems it is (a variant of) the Newcastle Diet. I leave the following links regarding the Newcastle Diet for reference:

About transitioning: yes, I asked this question to my doctor. She did not give me a precise answer. She told me we would do a plan together. The key part is not doing a “perfect plan”, but a reasonably good plan that I can keep for the long term.

I am thinking about this issue. One, is that I tend to be a pescetarian, naturally (I like meat, though). Two, I know I will have to return to cook for myself, and only buy basic products. I see there are many keto recipes, so maybe a good idea would be to have a list of good recipes and put a paper on the fridge with all the recipes I like, which are keto friendly. But I am still thinking what to do for the long term.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #49

@MommyJill2005 I have lost 7.3kg in 3 weeks, a 7.6% of my initial weight. I think you have done a great job!

(John) #50

Looks like he is following this program, based on the brand name mentioned. It is in Italian but Google can translate it:

https://www.therascience.com/ins-il-metodo-lignaform-55.htm

It looks like after an initial phase, which is heavily focused on their packaged products, that they introduce more fats and carbs in the next phase.

So basically a managed, commercial weight-loss program based on buying their products and working through diet clinics associated with them.

There are and have been many such approaches to weight loss. Not exactly what I think of as a “well formulated ketogenic diet” but it may work for Arbre.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #51

Yes, this is the company I am using.

My doctor told me the “return to normality” appearing in the webpage was only approximate, and we both would work out what would be best for “stabilization”. For example, it is unlikely I will eat simple carbs such as potatoes and pasta, as described in the webpage.

(Jane) #52

Sounds like she is approaching it as a “diet” not a permanent lifestyle change. If you add those carbs back you will gain the weight back. Trust me. Not from the small amount they add back… but the hunger and cravings will come back and that will lead to overeating and weight regain.

At that point you want to learn to eat on your own without a doctor prescribing your diet. You will be in a good position to do this being on low carb and the appetitie suppression that it brings.

The best tool I’ve found for maintenance is fasting and it is so much easier after eating keto for over a year. If my weight creeps up or I’ve indulged in too many carbs and just feel sluggish, I fast for a couple of days and it “resets” me. It also makes keto a permanent lifestyle for me because I don’t have to deny myself the pleasure of social events and holidays but it also doesn’t send me into a spiral of weight gain with the follow up fasting.

When I was young and thin, if I gained a few pounds I would just cut back for a few days and the weight would come off. I kept my weight in a fairly narrow range with very little effort until the hormones of child bearing screwed me up. Now my “cutting back” is 2-3 days without eating LOL but I’m 60 years old so that’s what works now.

(mole person) #53

Yes, exactly. I’m 104 lbs and under 20% body fat. I must eat plenty of fat or I’d starve on a ketogenic diet. My body fat at it’s current size can only release a few hundred calories a day and if I don’t fuel the rest from food it must lead to metabolic slowdown.

At your current size you can still fuel your body completely from fat. You could also fast and you would be fine.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #54

My doctor call it a “medical treatment”, not a diet or a permanent lifestyle change. She explicitly said the “treatment” would last for a few months. Later, I will have to change to a permanent lifestyle.

Maybe fasting is a good tool, yes. It seems reasonable, and helping to deal with “imperfections”. Also, Valter Longo recommends them (autophagy, etc.).

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #55

Wow, 104lbs. I do not know your height, but it seems impressive. Well done!

(mole person) #56

I suspect this is the real reason most people here have an issue with your diet. Lots of diets work to quickly shed weight and protein sparing calorie restriction will work very well, but for almost everyone the weight comes back when they reintroduce the carbohydrates. Even with the best intentions, adding carbs back in eventually leads most people back to overeating and hormone disregulation.

It’s not a big deal to try it though. But if you struggle to keep that weight off, come back here and try a whole food ketogenic diet as a permanent way of eating. It extremely powerful.

(mole person) #57

Thank you! I’m 5’5. This is my ideal weight and I’ve not been this size in over a decade. Whole food keto and time restricted eating keep me here.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #58

Which time restricted eating are you using?

(Jane) #59

LOL. she is changing what you eat… so it’s a prescribed diet without the negative connotation of the word. If you aren’t taking prescribed medicine and she isn’t performing a procedure on you - how is that considered medical treatment instead of a prescribed diet?

If you don’t make a permanent change then the weight will come back like > 95% of those who go on diets.

@Ilana_Rose has some good advice for your post-treatment phase and it’s good you are considering it now.

(Susan) #60

What you are doing now is not permanent and is like all the yo-yo diets I did for 40 years+ before finding Keto. That is what I am afraid of for you. If you were to just do Keto now and make it your permanent lifestyle you would be able to sustain it forever…and also:

  1. save tons and tons of money -from not having to pay this doctor that is making so much money off of you.
  2. save tons and tons of money from not having to buy any of her pills she is making you ingest… that are probably harmful for your body and not natural in the least.
  3. Saving yourself the grief of your body rebelling when you stop this artificial fix she has you on.

I am speaking from experience, I abused my body on all this yo-yo dieting, anorexia, bulimia, starving myself, laxative and diet pill abuse for years – Keto is sustainable and finally my solution to years of hurting myself… I just want you to be healthy and well and not go through all the anxiety and torture I put myself through. This doctor is making bank off of you… just because they have a M.D. after their name doesn’t mean they are not manipulative money-grabbing con artists…