Why not reducing fat to lose weight in a keto diet?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #1

I am in a keto diet which restrict calories. It goes well (I am at the beginning though, but I have already lost the water in glycogen reserves, and I keep losing weight, albeit at a slower pace).

We all agree carbs are “bad”. So we restrict to less than 20 per day.

Protein is necessary. There are some guidelines about which is the minimum needed per day. So we take that amount of protein.

By thinking, I realize that my diet does that, and then it adds a minimum of fat.

As a consequence, my diet is:

  • low carb
  • low fat
  • normal protein

I am not hungry due to being in keto. My metabolism is still fine.

I see here, keto diet is mostly understood as obviously low carb, but then most people take a big amount of fat. Protein is usually not very high (and in line with the need to eat fat, since often fat and protein go together).

My question is:

why not reducing fat consumption? Fat does not lead to a spike in insulin. But this does not mean that fat is necessary, just that fat is not as damaging as carbs in relation to insulin.

AFAIK, fat does not lead to less hunger. The key is low carbs, not high fats.

So, why not get rid of fat altogether, at least in the phase of weight loss? In maintenance, for sure adding fat would be good.

(Susan) #2

Read this, it might help explain it better =).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

Without carbohydrates as an energy source fat is the other option. If you don’t eat enough fat starting out especially you will slow down your metabolism and won’t burn your body fat easily. You need either higher fat or higher carbs, eating low on both is not going to work. They call that starvation mode. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #4

Well, my diet is designed by a doctor, who works with a company producing keto food. And they reach the conclusion that dietary fat is not necessary. In fact, it makes sense: I am using my stored fat, not dietary fat. Should dietary fat be different from stored fat?

Of course, it could be that dietary fat adds some benefits. One is given in the article quoted in this thread: fat makes everything taste good. But now I am not in the phase of enjoying food (well, in fact, I do, since taste is exacerbated in keto, at least for me).

For this reason, I am asking if there is any other reason to recommend dietary fat in a keto diet: does it add any benefit (on top of the benefits of the low carb part), if we disregard food taste?

#5

You can become very ill indeed if you try to live on protein alone - rabbit starvation I think it’s called. You also need some dietary fat to absorb certain nutrients.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #6

By the way, I do not feel I am starved at all. In the past (no relation to keto diet) I did 5-day water fasts (three of them). THAT was starvation mode, and I know how it feels.

Now I am not starved at all. My metabolism is normal, even maybe a bit higher (I am more active).

Could it be starvation mode is led by low protein consumption?

In fact, it seems to make sense. We know low carb by itself does not lead to starvation (many people here are in low carb for years, without starvation). Low fat should not be a problem, since the body can tap body fat reserves (at least, if eating low carb, with insulin being low).

So, the key seems to be protein. If protein consumption is adequate, the body will not feel that it is starving, since it has fat reserves to tap (granted, this may change when most excess body weight has been lost).

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #7

I put olive oil to my two portions of vegetables per day, in addition to Himalayan salt. And I am medically controlled: my diet is designed by a doctor! If it had such bad design, my doctor would have already lost her license.

(Susan) #8

You need the fat to also make sure you get enough calories. I was eating under the 20 grams of carbs, and eating my proteins and not enough fat, so for 2.5 months I haven’t lost any weight. I wasn’t eating enough fats or calories. At the moment I am in the process of increasing both of these, so that my metabolism will reset and then my body will start to lose weight in a couple more weeks of doing this, as @David_Stilley was explaining above to you. He has been helping me figure this all out, which is very kind of him and I really appreciate it. My body thought it was starving so was holding on to all the calories and not letting me lose weight.

#9

Fair enough but in your original post you asked the following

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #10

This is strange, since conservation of energy should work at all times. If you eat more fat, while eating exactly the same for everything else, you are adding calories. So, if you lose more weight by eating more fat, it means your metabolism is much lower by not eating fat.

Of course, every body is different. But in my case, it is not like this at all. I believe my metabolism is more or less stable (at least, so far; probably, when I get closer to my ideal weight, things will be different), so the less calories I eat, I am certain the more weight I will lose.

Note: I am a physicist, so I know energy conservation holds.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #11

If you know the answers why ask the question? It varies but most people believe you can only release 25-30 calories from a pound of body fat per day. So if you have 20 pounds of fat you can get maybe 500-600 calories if you are fat adapted. That takes 2-3 months. If you go low fat now you will slow down your progress, what you propose isn’t a ketogenic diet which should be 70% or more of your calories from dietary and body fat released calories.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #12

Yes, I was not precise enough. Also, the artificial food I eat has some fat, just very low fat.

It is the same as low carb. We say we do hate carbs, but it is impossible to eat 0 carbs, the maximum we can do is to eat little carbs. With fat, the same.

(Susan) #13

I am 54 and have been dieting since I was 11, and I really messed up my metabolism, so I need to reset it now. This will take some time but it took me a while to mess it up and gain all this weight too. I will lose the rest of the weight, and I will be healthy and slim eventually as well, but slow and steady wins the race =).

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #14

I do not know the answers. I only know a short-term reaction for n=1.

I am a scientist, and I know this is not enough, it could be noise.

As a consequence, I am asking for knowledge from people with more time experience, and with n>1 experience.

(Susan) #15

As you said, all of our bodies are different. I know that since I have started to increase my fats, proteins and calories, that my body is feeling better, and I feel I am getting healthier and finally doing Keto properly for the first time since starting it in February!

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #16

“what you propose isn’t a ketogenic diet which should be 70% or more of your calories from dietary and body fat released calories.”:

Is this really true? Is a keto diet defined as:

  1. low carb (less than 20 per day)
  2. high fat (more than 70% per day)?

Before; I understood a keto diet is defined only as (1), not as (2).

(Full Metal KETO AF) #17

My feeling Arbre is that your doctor doesn’t understand nutrition basics of they told you what you’re saying. As @anon54735292 said living off protein for your basic energy source will cause big problems for your health in time. Try this

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #18

Yes, both points.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #19

Yes, 70% calories from fat. Give me your weight, height, age and basic activity level, 1-5 couch potato to very athletic. I assume you are a woman.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #20

I am a man! 44 year old, 1.75m, 93.6kg (I was 101.3kg when I started, about 3 weeks ago), and now unfortunately 2-3 (I used to be 5).