Why I had to STOP KETO after 2 years :(

[newtoketonot]

Combine 1,and 2, carnivore and Definitely include eggs.

[PaulL]

Here’s the link—he says it at 22:10 or so.

[Lisambc]

I’ve been on keto 6 months and I’m not really struggling except bread.so I made keto biscuits or bagels. If I want pizza I make keto pizza n my 15 yr old loves it.
I am a meat n cheese person…so I like it
I have not cheated n if I need chocolate I get this bar made with stevia I eat my few pieces n I’m good.I guess there will be a time I’ll get frus rated n feel like stopping.but right now I don’t want too.
I’m constantly dealing with depression n stress.hormones n menopause.I have history of self sabatoge and have caught myself …n stop I don’t want attention or being looked at by guys so I kept fat so I wouldn’t get hurt.but I’m going to be 50 in Dec n I said to myself f*** this I’m losing for me.to be a better healthier mom n I do a lot for my mom I want to be healthier.
I think everyone is different n needs to do what’s best for them

[Saphire]

I think the person who spoke to you in that way was confusing you with the OP.

I completely agree with you that it is more nutrition suppositions than science. The history of the USDA food pyramid and my plate has nothing to do with science yet it is touted as being scientific. The worst is that theories are deemed fact, such as the high fiber whole grain diet. It may beneficial, it may not be, there are no reliable studies. There are no absolute long term studies on keto. Sure there are people like Atkins who ate this way for more than a decade and suffered no ill effects but hey there are plenty of people who smoked for 60 years and died at 98 and then there are those who got lung cancer at 58.

I did worry initially when I started keto but have been feeling well most of the time, have not found studies that make me think it is dangerous.

It drives me crazy that people have to use the word believe in connection with nutrition. Something that should be based on fact not belief which should be reserved for religion and true love!

[gabe]

I think the person who spoke to you in that way was confusing you with the OP.

Yeah you may be right about that!

I did worry initially when I started keto but have been feeling well most of the time, have not found studies that make me think it is dangerous.

I’ve always said that most people would benefit from a RELATIVELY low carb diet. I am not convinced that a strict ketogenic diet is necessary for most people. Having said that, if someone I loved were diagnosed with cancer, a ketogenic diet is one of the top things I’d insist they do (the others: hyperbaric oxygen therapy, Metformin, and Rapamycin.)

It drives me crazy that people have to use the word believe in connection with nutrition. Something that should be based on fact not belief which should be reserved for religion and true love!

Exactly. This drives me nuts about anyone who is obsessed with their diet. Vegans included. But frankly if someone came to these forums and were crucified for eating a Mediterranean diet, I think it’d be counterproductive. Thankfully most folks here are pretty open and pragmatic.

[Chris_W]

carnivore

Just start with this, and you won’t need to try the others.

You can thank me later.

[oward12]

Loved this video Paul. Completely answers my question to you on my thread regarding peoples Insulin Sensitivity, protein consumption and why I struggled on Carnivore. Gives me hope. Going to do exactly as he says at the end of this video and give myself some time to heal.

[N1coleS]

@gabe I have been following your posts for awhile because at first I was struggling just like you. While I have not found the solution or broken my stall, I did lots of research like you and experimenting has changed my opinion. But unlike you, I stopped looking at the direct science and started looking more for n = 1 experience. I also started seriously looking at my food consumptions and I have made some observations.

• I know you have been strict and nothing has changed. What I have learned is our bodies aren’t static and seem to like change. Especially nutritionally. The moment I started changing things up, things started moving again and I felt changes in my body. Your suggestions to try those 6 weeks trials might help. Some will feel great, others will not.
• I have been occasionally measuring my food again to get a sense of what I was eating. I kept getting recommendations to add more of this, and more of that, or take this away…I swore everything was balanced. But when I measured, I was shocked at how out of whack I was. The only thing that was normal was my carbs were super low. Biggest culprit, was my protein was lower than I expected. I have no fear of protein and thought I was eating lots…nope. I tried increasing my fat more and more and honestly that did nothing for me. In fact I gained more weight and still felt hunger. Finding my protein sweet spot seems to be key for me.
• I love fasting (I know you do not). But I only do intermittent fasting. Problem is my schedule so I have gotten stuck more often than not in eating one meal a day. This goes back to my first point…As soon as I changed it up (in my case started eating more frequently), things really improved. I hate to admit it, but between measuring my food, my activity level (which is not super high compared to some others but I have added more consistent weight training with gain goals), and my love of not having to eat during my work day, I think this is all contributing to my fat holding on.
  I have been resisting and fighting against all of these points. I keep thinking they are wrong and I am doing things right and to a T. But lately I am starting to realize that might not be the case. What I thought was best for my body (based on the science I had read), may actually not be working for me at this time even though it worked so well in the beginning and for so long! 2 years straight with great results but the last 8 months have been a struggle.
  But the beauty is I have this massive toolbox filled with knowledge! Now to get over my mental block and force changes. I hate that we have to continually tweak our diets. I’d give anything just to lock it in and coast but that is not in the cards for me (either is a stellar metabolism). I hate that I have to try what I consider radical changes when others just tweak their macros a little and bam they get results…but alas, it is what it is.

[margot17]

Please add to the list the Protein Leverage Hypothesis, I have been taking a pause from keto so I take the Kraft test and the 15-18% proteins on dietary energy indicated as a benchmark in the PLH is making me feel amazing. Weight-wise it’s too early to tell but at least I haven’t gained back the water weight.

[AnnM]

@Saphire, agree 100%. I think each of us has to look at what is working for us and what isn’t. And what works for me may not work for you exactly, so you tweak it to where it does work for you. None of us should be getting caught up in absolutes.

[Rocco_Ameduri]

Then it’s time for you to go full Carnivore.
Check out Shawn Baker , I tried it. Love it

[James8007]

Hey Michael. Understanding when on a program such as Ketogenic program depending upon your age the exercise regime you were on put a tremendous stress on your adrenal glands especially if you are in the 40-60 year age bracket. Those small glands above your kidneys create those stress hormones which in balance are helpful but when you go above your aerobic zone your body sees that as a fight or flight response and with the inadequate amount of proper fat and carbohydrates to burn your physiology will fail and burn out. It’s more detailed than that. But that is the basics. I have worked with numerous athletes with their recovery because of the inadequate nutrients available in our food supplement to provide for recovery. My Hydrex and detox program are a must for all programs. After 8 years I am redesigning the Hydrex to fit groups like yours so they don’t damage their tissue structures. Soon to be ready along with numerous articles on health related issues.Good luck. James Stivaly LMT Energenx.org
Naturalhealthcarenj.com

[Bellyman]

I think the person who spoke to you in that way was confusing you with the OP.

I kinda got lost in the thread and haven’t figured out quite what that was or who it was, but…

If I said something that wasn’t kind or was out of place, I hope y’all will forgive me. Didn’t mean anything that way if I did, just chiming in with a “friendly conversation” tone though it’s hard to inflect in print.

Anyway, didn’t know, but hoping I didn’t offend.

[bej10]

Yes Nathan, I would agree with your list.

My experience: I’m totally fat adapted. I’ve been in ketosis for 1 year and 8 months. On a daily basis I feel great. If I go for a bike ride with a person who likes to smell the roses, I can do that 100% fasted, no problem. If I go biking with a group that is aggressive, where I have to push myself into an intensity that is beyond my normal, then I will bonk. Part of this is due to getting the electrolytes dialed in. I’ve been mixing up some ketoaid before each ride. The other part is energy. I keep a couple dates in my pocket. If the pace is aggressive, then I eat a couple of them. When I get home from the bike ride and test my ketones I’m still in ketosis.

There are people on this forum who talk about doing the Maffetone method. It is a method geared toward teaching your body to use fat during exercise. You may want to look into that.

And lastly, elite runners typically have exceptionally low body fat, so for most of us, we can just stick to the “compose yourself with ketosis” part and still be seeing incredible gains fitness-wise. But I would not venture often into anaerobic territories because it seems like evidence is emerging that, without healthful carbohydrates priming the pump, anaerobic efforts can lead to burn-out, adrenal fatigue, roaming cortisol, injury etc. I wonder if these symptoms resonate with anyone in this thread?

Regarding the above quote, maybe that’s why @Michael_Heffez had to stop doing keto.

I think it all boils down to finding what works and tweaking it as you go.

[CaptainKirk]

Wow, there is a lot to unpack. First everyone is different, I am a great example of that.
I could NOT do KETO/Atkins well in the past, because I was allergic to milk, and cannot tolerate nightshades (Tomatoes, Peppers, etc). So, the things I was eating were giving me cortisol, and inflaming me. Causing my edema.

In the last year, after 50 years of stops/starts, I hit 307… But I discovered my intolerance to nightshades, and Legumes (especially Peanuts. The peanut butter was CAUSING My Migraines. But it was 2-5 days AFTER I ate it).

I eventually went Full Carnivore, without EGGS (I was not sure, but I typically had eggs with Cheese, it turns out the Cheese was the huge problem).

ONCE I got rid of the LECTINS (Read Dr. Gundry), and I started IF (Intermittent Fasting), and LEARNED that I SHOULD NOT Lower my Caloric Intake!!! (Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD).

I dropped about 20lbs in 23 days, normalized my BP in 8 days!!! (A multi-year issue for me. Gone). I came off my water pill for Edema while on Carnivore. And I found I felt BETTER fasting than I did on my eating days.

As I discovered my remaining food issues. (And ordered a few more tests, due in next week).

What you LACKED was not better KETO, it was IF (IDMProgram.com) style approach. I am a CLIENT of theirs. Dr. Fung is amazing, and summarizes it best. My personal Doctor is ON BOARD and happy for me that I am doing this.

Intermittent Fasting, in 7 weeks has FIXED My insulin Sensitivity! I just took a GTT today. And at the 2hr mark, my Glucose level was BELOW my Fasting Glucose level coming in (79, 189, 62) (0hr, 1hr, 2hr). That is the GOAL, right there. This was a 75g Glucose challenge. (BTW, 75g is like 3-5 WEEKS worth of carbs for me). ALSO, I NEVER CAME out KETOSIS (4.2, 2.7,2.2, and 4hrs I was at 4.0 via Blood). [I used a Keto-Mojo for all of these readings. The nurse was really cool about letting me test in parallel to her, so I can compare the actual lab results later!

Fewer Insulin hits over 7 weeks. I was doing 7 hits per day before this. Down to 1 a day, roughly.
Off all medicines.

I will NEVER go back. And the point is that I CAN EAT WHATEVER I WANT… Once in a while. This wednesday I am having dinner with Friends. It is an eating day. And I may end up having something off my program. DOES NOT MATTER. First, like the GTT, it is a one time thing, and the NEXT Day, I am scheduled to FAST. Occasional Feasting is fine if you follow with Fasting!

Fasting DOES NOT lower your BMR. Cutting Calories does. And I think THIS was your only mistake.
Also, DietDoctor says it plain and clear. IF is far far better for you than Exercise when it comes to weight loss.

I wish you luck in whatever you do. Processed carbs are bad for us. And MANY Plants and Legumes are HORRIBLE for many of us. EACH OF US has to find out how their body reacts to various things!

Final Huge Plus: My Psoriasis is GONE! 30 years…

[lfod14]

I started gaining weight; I was decreasing calories, exercising several hours a day and for the life of me could not shed a ounce. Why? Excess cortisol/ stress.

Exercising for “Several HOURS” while lowering calories will destroy anybody’s metabolism, that’s a constant regardless of other issues that may have been holding you up.

Keto is stressful on the mind; regardless of who you are or what your willpower is; eventually foods, food groups will creep up on your mind and you will crave something but b/c you’re doing Keto, you cannot. That’s depravation.

It’s not “stressful on the mind”, Studies have shown the total opposite of that which is why it helps so many people come off anxiety and depression meds. Typically cravings are due to things in your diet and if you REALLY want to eat something once in a while, then you just eat it and go on with life. It’s not “deprivation” to not eat something that’s terrible for you. That’s called staying healthy and it’s something ALL people (try) to do whether keto, low calorie, low fat or any other way of eating. It’s no different than a low fat person eating some fried food with fries once in a while for a treat. Would you say a normal SAD dieter is dealing with “deprivation” because they don’t eat the correct amount of healthy fats for hormonal support? You’re using very strong words to sell the idea you’ve come up with to quit keto.

Aside from the stress the body is enduring, blood sugar may drop to abnormal levels (hypoglycemia) which is what I had faced on a number of occasions. Keto long term can become dangerous in that respect. Moreover Keto & exercise is NOT a good mix…if you like to bike ride, walk, jog or run, forget the SKD approach; long term it will do more harm than good. You’re body won’t be able to keep up and you will begin feeling lightheaded amongst other scary symptoms; i.e. seizures. I’ve learned the hard way; as they say: old habits die hard. Keto is almost like a drug; it can feel so good that it becomes addictive.

I do cardio 3-4 times a week and lift heavy 5x a week. I have a very physically demanding job and never have an issues during workout or otherwise. My blood sugar is stable. I also Mountain Bike, again, without any of these issues as do countess other millions of people eating this way.

You constantly have to worry oh will this throw me out or that might…stress will build up from depriving yourself so much and cheat days will throw you completely off track. You’re lying to yourself if you say you don’t crave something or you don’t need a cheat day. Willpower only takes you so far then your body & brain take control not you; you’re no longer in the driver seat.

Wrong again, MOST of us are very aware of what will pull us out of ketosis and no it’s not some constant fear running though our heads all day long. One of the perks of eating this way when done correctly is it CONTROLS those cravings.

Bottomline is that if you like exercise and/ or you wish to build lean muscle, Keto is NOT optimal for that…you’re better off incorporating some complex carbs (lentils, steel cut oats, fruits, sweet potato) into your diet. Complex carbs + protein is how lean muscle is formed. That’s biochemistry and science…you cannot rewrite the book on how the body works and how muscle is built. Perhaps if you’re sedentary, then SKD might work but for most- doesn’t seem to be the case.

If you think carbs are required to build lean muscle then you really haven’t looked into this at all. SUGAR is not what builds muscle.

You have taken a LAUNDRY list of thing that are NOT the norm for most people and blaming them all on keto which is ridiculous. You obviously had something off in your diet or something else going on driving all of this, if you don’t want to troubleshoot it that’s fine, but don’t play the blame game. MANY of us here have been eating this way for YEARS without any of these issues, there is no shortage of Semi pro and a couple of pro bodybuilders that have switched sides, still hitting the iron harder than any of us could and keeping up with what they did on carbs without issue. No shortage of people over at ketogains going from fat AND skinny to muscular on keto, again, not passing out, going hypoglycemic, craving sugar etc.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

So starving yourself and working out an insane amount caused your cortisol levels to rise. I understand that. Stressing about food does not make sense to me. There is a wide variety of delicious foods within keto so I don’t get your point there but I agree that cauliflower pizza crust is an absolute abomination to pizza.
As for blood glucose levels dropping so low… was that when you were fasting and working out for long periods of time or was it the day after a guilt ridden binge on “non keto” foods? I have found I absolutely cannot binge on anything with sugar or grains because the following day my blood sugar crashes and I nearly pass out. To avoid that I eat a few grapes the following morning to keep the huge crash from happening so drastically. I then tend to gain 5 lbs of water weight for a week. And then I feel terrible! I prefer to just stick with strict keto to avoid the blood sugar game. Doing LCHF is a bit of a balancing act… low carb purgatory as some call it. I can understand wanting to do it because carbs are yummy (I love oatmeal!) but for me it always leads to water retention and a crash when I inevitably am forced to skip a meal due to work.

[clackley]

Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD

CONGRATULATIONS!!! And thank you for sharing your personal journey. It is so valuable to learn some of the very complicated issues many people are faced with. I particularly love this “Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD”! I may have a t-shirt made up with that phrase on the front and the back!

[dlc96_darren]

Clara, did you see this comment from another thread? Might be worth checking out.

Crisis: I really don't like eating this way

OMG you MUST try hemp seeds! Shelled hemp seeds (often called hemp hearts) have a subtle nutty taste (which I like, but it’s easy to disguise if you don’t), and there are 11g of protein, 14g of fat and only 1g net carbs (2g carbs total, 1g of which is fiber) for 3 tablespoons, so they’re a pretty awesome non-animal-protein choice for keto, They’re also high in omega 3s, and I’ve personally found them very easy on my (sometimes cranky) digestive system. They’re great sprinkled on salads, and can …

[ClaraJTeixeira]

I did not, but do have hemp seeds with grand intentions of making noatmeal.