It doesn’t work that way
One cannot simply eat more fat
It seems to me, an old RN of decades experience, that you have big gaps in your understanding of keto
If a carb/sugar burning patient has low BG, there is definitely something wrong
I would NEVER tell a sugar burner with below normal glucose to ‘ just eat fat’
That’s absurd
It’s also irrelevant because you are supposed to be a fat burner, not a sugar burner
What makes you so sure?
When a person is doing keto properly they absolutely gain lean body mass. That includes muscle, connective tissue and bone
If you really are keto, with no caveats, and are gaining belly fat, then I will stand in my cortisol argument and the stress you are putting on yourself
very interesting and intriguing stuff…I’m curious if I jump right back into Keto what would happen…maybe I’ll wait another week…so would you say that once fat adapted, there’s no way of a low BG attack to come on?
My pants are tight. Not substantially more stress than usual, blood cortisol tests normal. Sleep not great but that’s not a variable that’s changed much.
I think you’re putting too much stock in “proper keto.” I’ve been doing this for two years. I know what I’m doing and I am telling you, there’s a lot of variables. Nutrition science is barely a science right now, the state of human knowledge about weight regulation and nutrition is positively primitive.
The amount of faith people have in “veganism” and “keto” and other diets is for the most part unwarranted by the science. The most we can say is that sugar and starchy carbs are very likely culprits for the obesity epidemic, largely likely due to their effect on blood insulin levels. That’s about it.
Assuming that if someone follows a “ketogenic diet” that they can’t possibly gain weight is far, far beyond where the science is at this point. We have plenty of N=1 cases on these forums to prove just that! We’re all flying blind here!
Yep. That’s my experience as well. These days, if I occasionally seem extra hungry, I might go a little overboard with Keto foods. Even then, if/when I check my blood ketone levels, I’m still well into ketosis.
I have not even seen verification of the “brain needs 24% glucose as it’s energy”.
You all realize that the troll is pleased he has achieved at lease one of his trolling goals, he has gotten us to fight amongst ourselves arguing about his inflammatory claims, right?
Why are you all feeding the troll?
I have been on the internet since 1989, and I have learned that if a poster looks like a troll, smells like a troll, smells like a troll, and shits all over your passion like a troll, you back away quietly and do not engage, 'cause doing so teaches the troll that trolling works and he will just keep shitting on your passion and encourage others to do it too.
Agreed, and there still is a lot of fear-mongering that one sees about “you have to eat some carbohydrates…”
My total layperson’s take on blood sugar is that yes, most of our body runs just fine on ketones, but it won’t be a perfect, linear relationship between what is considered normal blood sugar for a “standard” diet and what works for somebody burning fat.
“Normal” is usually said to be around 85mg/dl or 4.7mmol/l.
If, for example, a fat-burning person would be running on 75% ketones with the remaining 25% being glucose, then I think because of certain inefficiencies in the body (or other factors I’m not aware of) that while lower blood sugar, per se, is fine because less is needed, a blood sugar level 25% of “normal” might still be too low, and result in the person feeling common “low blood sugar” syptoms.
Putting together all the anecdotal accounts I’ve read, plus some reports and studies on long-term fasting people, I’d give a range as follows:
45mg/dl or 2.5mmol/l ~ some people start feeling faint or otherwise “not right” close to this level.
40 or 2.2 ~ a higher percentage of people will be feeling it.
35 or 2.0 ~ an even greater percentage will be feeling it. Still, lots of people - usually well fat-adapted and often experienced longer-term fasters - feel fine.
2.7 or 1.5 ~ this area is where most people will be feeling it, and - my opinion - this is where concern should really begin, even if a given individual isn’t reporting feeling bad.
Hey Gabe,
I apologize if I have you mixed up for someone else, but I was thinking you’re not a fan of fasting.
I did hear a lecture by one of the keto docs that mentioned something I’ve wondered about as maybe being something for you to consider. We often talk about changing things up and this would be a big change.
She talked about a group of monks (? some religious order, can’t remember exactly) that she found making some kind of pilgrimage. They were complaining about fasting, but… they were basically eating a strict vegan diet as a part of whatever ritual this pilgrimage was. It wasn’t super long term, I think it was perhaps a few weeks or a month, something like that.
But I wondered, despite it being near heresy on a keto forum, do you think switching up your diet to a very strict low fat vegan diet for maybe even a month or so would do anything for your situation? I’m not saying to quit keto forever. And I’m not suggesting a full water fast. The strict vegan fast/diet would allow you significant nutrients… plenty of greens, which are keto anyway, and quite a bit of other stuff, so you’d still be able to eat. But it would definitely be a change. But then, maybe after a few weeks or a month, or whatever you decide, you could come back to keto if you decide that’s what you’d like to do.
Maybe others will be able to tell whether that’s a really bad idea or not. I honestly don’t know for sure. Like “keto”, there might be quite a lot of different ways to do such a thing, some better, some worse. But it’s a thought that came to mind.
If it’s not of any interest, that’s OK. Just throwing the thought out there. Never know whether an idea might spawn enough of a thought that a better idea comes forth. (?)
Good luck!
Don’t forget the known effects of the fructose moiety of sucrose on the liver, in addition to the effect of the gllucose moiety on insulin. It’s a real double-whammy. Fructose by itself can cause insulin resistance in the liver.
Benjamin Bikman says there is no study showing it that he has been able to find.
One tries. I first learned the word reading Shakespeare in high school, but in this context I borrowed it from Dr. Lustig. So chemists read Shakespeare—who knew?
I don’t often see flaming on these forums. I think this is one of the first times I’ve seen outright, unabashed, insulting flaming here.
In answer to the substance of what you’re saying (and ignoring your nasty tone): Nutritional science is so primitive that it barely deserves to be called science. Read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” or “Why We Get Fat” and Taubes will tell you this. So the low carb community should be the LAST people to prescribe, with certitude, that this or that particular method will definitely cause fat loss.
Show me the science.
“Well if it’s not working for you then you’re not doing it right” is a terrible answer; it’s patronizing and it also assumes that the science is rock solid. It’s not.
2 years ago, in my first 10 weeks, I lost 10 kilos eating RELATIVELY low carb. Bear in mind that I was eating like 2 mangoes a day and still dropping fat. 2 mangoes a day. That was low carb compared to what I was eating previously.
Eventually I eased into a VLCKD. A year in I was completely ketogenic and barely losing; I basically plateaued for 18 months before I started gaining fat again.
Your assumptions are off-base. I really don’t appreciate being spoken to like a newb, and even a n00b doesn’t deserve to be spoken to like that.
It’s 100% heresy, but I’ll tell you what I’m considering: trying a month or 6 weeks of each of the following:
So I definitely appreciate the heretical suggestion. I’m certainly considering all options!
Happy to play the part of the heretic. LOL!!
I would guess you could try any of those things you suggest and see how they go. If you do, let us know. I’m sure others will be interested as I know there are several who post regularly that have had some frustrations with the weight either not coming off or going back up again.
