Why high fat and not just low/zero carbs?


(David) #1

Hi, I’ve recently started Keto and it’s going well but I can’t recall from my initial learning why the high fat component is necessary.

Why will my body not just burn fat in the same way if I’m very low or zero carb whilst sometimes eating medium or high fat or sometimes low fat (eg skinless chicken breast)?

To my mind I’m having to burn the fat I’ve eaten before I get to the body fat I want to burn. No?
Especially as I’ll likely be consuming fewer calories.

Hope someone can help :wink:


(bulkbiker) #2

Hi and welcome.
Yes a zero carb / ultra low carb diet will get you into fat burning mode. But if you don’t want to restrict calories that will naturally lead to a higher fat and high protein diet. As fat has twice the caloric value of protein (roughly) then a zero carb diet will by default be higher in fat than protein.
You don’t necessarily need to add extra fat just eat the zero carb foods that come with fat already present. Sometimes adding extra fat can start the process of deriving energy from fat but it’s not essential.


#3

Not necessary, some people don’t eat high fat on keto. I had a very nice low-fat keto day myself.
But it’s hard to do without starving. If you have lots of fat to lose and you are fine with a lowish calorie intake and maybe even with quite high protein… It may work for a while
.
But I for one need the calories. If I eat 100g fat, that’s already a bigger deficit than what my body usually allows even if I eat high protein (but not very high. just twice as much as my need)… I can’t get so much energy out of my reserves, I need calories from food and the protein isn’t enough.
I need fat for satiation and I need fat for enjoyable meals.

Besides fat is essential. We must eat some. Chicken breast is way too lean.

Eating too low calories easily can be counterproductive. And even if you lose fat quicker, it isn’t worth it if you ruin your metabolism in the process, don’t get enough nutrients…etc.


(Butter Withaspoon) #4

Hi David, if you’ve got plenty of fat on board, then you can let the body burn it without adding extra. Many people need some extra fat in the in initial weeks to help transition to mainly burning fat. You don’t want to feel stressed or feel you are calorie restricting. Once you’re comfortable, I like the advice - Prioritise Protein, then add fat to satiety.

So if you’re not hungry, don’t add fat! All the best for your health journey!


#5

One usually doesn’t need extra (added) fat, just some fat from the protein sources. It varies how much but almost zero fat seems a horrible idea for about everyone.

And in the beginning (or if someone is more sensitive, maybe, prefers lean meat etc.) one easily may prefer less fat. My first carnivore days (I adapted quickly but I always loved fat) were less fatty to avoid nausea. But I eventually needed more.
Someone with very much fat to lose can get away with less fat for way longer. But eventually, calories will be needed. And rabbit starvation syndrome isn’t nice. So some fat is needed and in some cases, it’s very much, there are simply no other good options. Losing fat with huge fat reserves or with a small energy need is when one may get away with eating little fat.


(David) #6

Ha! I’m not massively over weight (most would say I’m not at all) just after shifting half a stone and the health benefits…

Does that mean I need the high fat even less?

(I’m not averse to the fat - I love it - just finding it a slog to put away the amount the macro calculators suggest)

Also, I fast and exercise regularly.


(David) #7

So if I’m getting enough calories without obsessing about hitting 70% fat I can still achieve ketosis provided I’m strict with the carbs?


(David) #8

Thanks for the replies btw all :+1:


#9

Most definitely.
We are in ketosis because we eat little enough carbs, no matter if our fat intake is 0 or 200g. Fat is for calories, satiation, good taste and a little because it’s essential… Not because it’s needed for ketosis.

I eat much fat and I am almost always significantly below 70%… As my protein sources has less than 70% :slight_smile:
Percentages aren’t important, usually. They are in therapeutic keto but not in normal… I am fine with my 50-70% (I avoid lean protein but this is what I get without added fat) but I would be fine with 90% too if that would work. Maybe in the future, on my most active days, who knows?


(Polly) #10

No that means you need the high fat because you don’t have your own resources to burn.


(Jill F.) #11

I feel like I have some days I eat high fat and others I don’t. I do feel more satiated the more fat I eat though and snack less often.


(Scott) #12

You are going to need fuel for your body. Other than stored fat reserves you have only three sources carbs, fat and protein. So if you limit carbs effectively you will need to make up the difference with the other two. As long as you feel good and not hungry there is no need to load up on added fats. A little more difficult in the beginning but after several months you will be dialed in.


#13

Protein also gets an insulinic response. Less than carbs, but still. So, if you exaggerate on proteins, you’ll have accordingly insulin. That’s what I understood.

Edit: orthography


(Tracy) #14

The foods I eat already contain enough fat to satiate me without me having to add fat to them. Once you get the hang of it, you will know what to eat and let your body guide you.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

Jason Fung puts it succinctly: “If you eat carbs you burn sugar, if you eat fat you burn fat”. Yes, once you get your metabolism into fat burn mode again, you will start to utilize onboard stored fat. It will happen by restricting carbs. Many will argue that you need to restrict calories on keto just as much as a CICO diet. But researchers are learning that keto does metabolic things to burn onboard fat that otherwise do not happen, so restricting calories is not necessarily so. Conversion of WAT to BAT, for example, where fat is converted directly to heat by mitochondrial uncoupling. Wasting energy, by converting fat to ketones and then excreting the ketones in urine and breath.

The primary danger of restricting calories is metabolic slowdown. The way to avoid this pitfal is to listen to your hunger. If you are hungry all the time, you need to eat more. If you are hungry only before your regular eating times, that’s OK, just your body’s way of telling you it’s time to eat. So, yes, you can increase your onboard fat burn if you do it right and not slow your metabolism. If you do it wrong you will lose the fat, but as soon as you start to eat you will regain it and probably then some. And you must start to eat again since you can not maintain an energy deficit forever or you’ll kill yourself.


#16

It’s not, we need enough fat for hormonal support and for fuel but the dumping bacon grease on everything and needlessly fat-ifying everything they eat is just something people do for some reason.

Some people doing medical keto benefit from the higher fat content but for most it’s unneeded and for many like be it’ll hold back fat loss.


(David) #17

Thanks again all


(Laurie) #18

David, thank you for asking this question. And thanks to all who have responded. I’ve learned a lot from this thread that I didn’t know before.


(Bob M) #19

Not sure why they argue this. One flaw here is that I lost 30+ pounds solely by cutting carbs and eating as much as I want. Now, the cico-phants would come in and tell me that I just cut back on my calories. But, why? I thought it didn’t matter whether I got my 100 calories from sugar or from meat. Why do high carbs make me overeat and yet low carbs don’t?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #20

@ctviggen I’ve encountered the hypothesis that eating high carb and/or plants exclusively sends the ‘famine’ signal to your brain. The brain then issues appropriate signals to go into energy storage mode to convert as much as possible of the resultant glucose into fat. I’ll be investigating further and will report.